Interview about State Persecution on Mind of A Skeptical Leftist

Interviewed about State Persecution on Mind of A Skeptical Leftist

CORY: Alright, so we are now live. Everybody knows the show. It's the mind of a skeptical leftist and I'm talking to Rosa Ann Ellis from we are the intolerant left and we're talking about the prosecution that you're facing from the state.

ROSA: Yeah, I mean at present charges haven't been brought, which kind of highlights the ridiculousness, because if they really had the evidence they claimed and in recent days like kind of partially because of this delay with our lawyer, told us what almost four weeks ago that one or actually both of us might be, would definitely be arrested. In the next two weeks now, it's been 4 weeks they haven't.

CORY: OK.

ROSA: If they really have this evidence. A wish to be like. People need to realize the only thing that somebody being investigated this. Or their lawyer gets told at the. Time is that. They get told by. A cop that cop. Labs have found a thing like if we aren't presented with proof that they actually found anything, and because.

UNKNOWN: OK.

ROSA: We believe that the. The aim of this and the reason why this allegation was chosen.

ELLIS: The other station for my our computer is.

ROSA: Well, partially together things from our computers. I mean, I kind of I. Strongly believe and I have. We have a hacker friend who agrees that this is probably the reason why we're short the Volt 7 league was, you know, caught for espionage and why they raided him for CD, which he denied for a very long time and you know, there are coercive parts of surviving in prison. Like shortening the sentence that can get people to decide to recount that, but I have. I have a friend who says, you know, he worked for me and. To say he was. A pro hacker. If he was an actual people who would never have been. Caught, but crucially, they could never have made that. Case for espionage. If they hadn't seized his devices or CP, now they would have had no basis at the time to seize other bases to look at. It for terrorism. I'm sure is what they would like to look at us for. You know this is what they tried to.

ELLIS: Yes, we.

ROSA: Put away to be shown for a week.

ELLIS: We tried to tread on egg shells. When we do the broadcast in that we run close to the line of being kicked off of YouTube, but we try to keep within that line, you know?

UNKNOWN: OK.

ROSA: Yeah, I mean what people need to understand. Is first of all you. Probably have never heard Russian. We're well aware. Of that that. We'll also be aware of the notion of anything a problem in the. But but you should know. And you will see. If you take the time to to look. At our work the there. We aren't like any other anarchist Youtubers there is nobody else who says quite the same things. I'm sure they probably believe a lot of them, but they talk about whether revolution would work, where the revolution is just by we talk about doing a ******* revolution. Right now and how?

ELLIS: Yeah, we talk. We talk about how to. Take action and.

UNKNOWN: Right?

ELLIS: You know?

ROSA: You know we.

UNKNOWN: Could have like.

ROSA: I was saying before we went like if I thought that the the. The comrades that you know. I thought. Were just waiting for somebody to put their head. Above the power, but I thought that they. Kind of didn't want that. Which it kind of seems like.

ROSA: Most of them.

ROSA: Don't to be honest if. I thought that they didn't want that. I we would have just been another one of. Those ******* animals Youtubers we. Would have just had our life my life. Only just got. Good, just real single. Was finding each other. Well, we found each other because of our shared love for revolution and preparedness. Take great risks so we didn't let that hold us back. But, crucially, because we. Had faith we had a we had a bit more faith that people would see this and I understand that the allegation is upsetting it. And for many triggering it literally is for. Me, and that's why we believe we chose it. This is why we. Say we don't think they ever expect it to. Have to produce manufactured evidence to a court. Right and therefore at this point. At this point may not have even done that work. Right and This is why maybe the it's taking so long with the. CPS because because we haven't. ******* killed our well because I haven't. Killed Ellis yet. Which is plan A because it's the point is. I I've been a victim of a number of forms of sexual trauma by a number of abusers and that all started because I was made so vulnerable by the attentions of a ********** and it made me blood in the ******* water for every abuser that I got near you know. I spent most of my life in and out of you know, always treated for mental illness since I was 12 in and out of psychiatric wards, making many suicide attempts. The idea that the state would believe it's an attainable aim to get me to kill myself, let alone if you read my my poetry. And the art to make me kill. Ellis, if I believed it was true. Yeah, to believe that that is that they believed it was an attainable aim is perfectly reasonable. It's a profile that can be gleaned from. I put out there. For for 15 years, my advocacy expanded and like about four years or so ago to broader politics. But that's literally what I did, and it's the easiest thing in the world. To read my poetry and go well. If we made this allegation about her husband, she would get and the truth is I'll probably do it if I just look suspicious, it wouldn't. Be right, just. To do it over. The insufficiencies and it and believing it given that. He is innocent, wouldn't be right, but. That's the reality that ****** ** I am you. It's easy to see that there is a burning violence of having regretted not killing my abuser and just ******* waiting for the chance. Frankly, in any of my writing about the subject that's been in the public domain for 15 years to so we believe that they expected planning to kill him, that's. Like the tops and B we kill. Ourselves, probably because. I do and then I just can't do this without me, and given my history of suicide, that's a very attainable aim to. And given what he's ******* faced. With alone, it's a very attainable aim to. I believe they almost looking tried to.

UNKNOWN: Do that already.

ROSA: One of the first things in the first blog post where we started doing this publicly was they tried to section. For starters, just like I predicted, they triggered a, you know, a big PTSD response because I'm having like booking a child who's described to me as a victim of child abuse and. Like I've I've checked with like, the charges were dropped on the day. I'll get that, but I have also checked with the witnesses and they back. Back my words as. Well, I explained that I wanted to kill myself and nothing was mentioned of it at the time. No claim was made that I said anything else at the time. It was only after they tried to section. That and they took me to mental health crisis center. The mental health workers. This is why I was considering actually. Relenting and allowing myself to be put in hospital because then. Maybe people would actually. Looking listen because I know that no mental health professional, just like those ones. None of those those ones couldn't. None of them could listen to what I was saying even back then before. I heard before the other. And think she's definitely saying that because she's lost grip of reality due to mental. Health I mean, for starters I've had. Mental problems my whole life, but they are depression anxiety and I've never been and never lost grip of reality. That's just not the nature of my mental health problems.

UNKNOWN: Right?

ROSA: Been in wards. Well I'm the only person not talking to somebody who wasn't there just because it got that bad. But to be honest. It never got bad. In that way, you know I. Mean so yeah, I. Don't believe any. Of them could do that and they didn't they. Just said they turned to. The police and. Said listen, she's just very triggered and hacked. Basically, and so, no, we can't. We're not gonna. You know approved this cop. Requested sectioning of this person and bear in mind I took spend my time describing my relief that we were being targeted because we were anarchist revolutionaries and they said this when they said that they weren't gonna sign us off. The police went back. Into the hallway made a. Call presumably to a superior, came back in and arrested me. They didn't tell me what for. I meant it's not surprising they didn't because their mental health professional would have recognized it. Based on the response, I would have had based on the response I did have when I found out that this was a flagrant act of gaslighting and they would have called it out. So anyway, I get walked out in cuffs saying Oh yeah, no, I think it's not being targeted at all and this is surely. Floor and the up and up and. The jaws are on the floor. I get back to the police station and somebody. Tells me I. Was under arrest for threats to kill. Well, I said who? And they said. That I threatened to kill Alice. That I said I wanted to kill Allison. I mean, if I was going to be a pernickety like. Also say saying you wanna kill somebody's actually a threat but the point is. I never ******* said that I said to them instantly ******* lie that you're making to establish the line that I believe. Your lies about my husband. To strengthen your lies about my. Husband go **** yourself. No way. He claimed there. Was CCTV foolishly very foolishly because I just went OK then show me it. Never was produced even in. My interview, it took 5 minutes because I just went show me that CCTV it doesn't exist. Well, it will exist. But it will just show me. Saying something else. And you know, there's literally nothing we can do to get out of that, so the charges were dropped and also notable. I was arrested for assaulting a police officer that day, which has been settled with a caution which our lawyer couldn't. I believe, and the reason I believe they settled out with the caution rather than charging me like they normally would, was because they don't want us talking about any of this in front of a court before they get the fit up before before court. They want nobody to probably know about this. For as long as possible.

ELLIS: Sorry to go down.

ROSA: Which is, you know why? They say to people I. Need them? We need them sharing this yeah. Yeah I have to. Admit you. Know everybody in the circle to which I've. We're trying to reach out they're activists, right? Yeah, they really understand that. Like little digital. Hearts literally mean nothing. I've said this in other cases, not just. Our own, you know, but. The you know the truth. Is it's about? Eyes and allies. The only way you increase that, we're literally putting out content every ******* day RSLS. Our social media is so. ****** that no one can find. Anything with search results. And I can't find our own threads. We were also we were suspended and once I was released from custody, which was 12 hours. By the way, I was also denied medication which they were able to do only by lying to us about what was required to. Give get my medication to me and lying to say that they would give me the medicine. A little box that he handed over. Obviously, he said I don't believe you, but you know the fact is that he was right not to believe them because so they can try to deny me mental health medication for a number of hours and then attempted.

ELLIS: 2 doses.

ROSA: 2 doses and then attempted to charge me with something I didn't do, presumably because they thought in a disoriented state I might go Oh my God. Maybe I did. Which was highlighted by afterwards after the interview. The police officer person who initially told me that about this lie said well, what did she say and the police officer said she just strenuously denies the charges. He asked her in like 3 different. Ways and she. Said exactly the same thing and he said.

ROSA: What she won't.

ROSA: Even concede. She maybe said it in the heat. At the moment, and I said, absolutely not. And you don't have the CCTV. That's where this ******* But anyway, that's probably enough about that day. I mean, we've got a full, you know, a thing.

CORY: There's the whole yeah.

ROSA: It's all in one document, but there is. The first blog post it's. On this and the other ones are just on home page. We are intolerant online does go into.

ELLIS: Yeah, I wrote everything out yesterday and it's well past few days, but really long.

ROSA: Passing days. It's bloody long. You'll see why it took so long to put together.

ELLIS: There's a, there's a lot of this, cause I mean, obviously there's like because we we didn't have that large an audience.

ROSA: Once you see it.

ELLIS: A lot of people are saying, well, why are you? Why target you? Yeah, but.

ROSA: Actually, to be honest, not.

ELLIS: It's because.

ROSA: Many people are even saying. That well, this is something we're.

ELLIS: It's because of our past, it's.

ROSA: Imagining they're thinking because people won't engage at all.

ELLIS: It's because of our past I. I mean, I. I was saying this morning I had the theory that they were specifically targeting me because of previous actions I've done and the threat of the attractions, yeah?

ROSA: It's also. It's yeah. Like reasonable for them. To that, taking Ellis out would Take Me Out of action because I would have nowhere to go. I would have to presumably go. Home which is not a happy place for me to. Be honest, they're not. The worst. Family in the world. But it's I had to get out and also taking yours out. Very reasonable for them to believe. That would mean me and if. Psychiatric ward for the rest of my. ******* life. So I think also it's a harder lie to sell about me because of all that public work, which is also the reason why we say they chose this allegation.

CORY: I think I think the question about like.

ROSA: You also chose the allegation because obviously it's uncomfortable for. Anybody who agrees with. Us because it's fundamentally opposed to our politics. That's the point of. That's the point of all of this. Now I had to resist a pretty ******* evil sign. Up right. And I'm sorry. But the weakness of so many people to not even engage and ask the questions to seek to understand they're being played like that, because this is so often all of us, by the way, just like it's a smear on all of us. It's been done before. We don't know that he was definitely. Innocent, but it kind of looks like he. Was a man in Arizona. Where I believe he led a protest. He was later charged with. Child *********** and then before he was even, he pled not not guilty for two years, and the when he did plead guilty, there were two things that could have factored into that as to why which went to reducing the sentence. Both of them. Anyway, the police officer has said now I know he. Hasn't been charged.

UNKNOWN: I don't really.

ROSA: Want to comment? But this is really why we shouldn't listen to people who talk about defunding the police, because he probably knew he'd have an encounter like this one day. They will smear all of us. Now their blindness. The incredible line is that people, not to. See that not? To see that obviously I'm saying I'm being manipulated because of my visceral.

UNKNOWN: OK, I mean.

ROSA: Something I've obviously had. Hope in my heart for a long time. Given what I've already told you.

ELLIS: First thing 1st century.

ROSA: But it's one of the first things that. I learned from. Him was like that. Of that as a political slogan. I love that from him ******** like there was just there was literally no reason none at all, from anybody who actually knows him, let alone anybody on the on the Internet to not trust us. And I cannot ******* believe how much they still trust cops. Clearly, I mean, come on. The only people who claim that we're guilty, even like some Internet *******. We've got argument the other day. Now I've kind of been. Worried that in some Twitter beef somebody would cynically claim to believe they're guilty, right? They can't even do. That in that context, because they know how ridiculous and unfounded and

UNKNOWN: Cynical it would look.

ELLIS: So how in God's?

ROSA: Name are people who you know. Like I told you before we went like. That yeah, I absolutely ******* expect. With it's like whatever form the state retaliation we expected would come. I expected them to stand up first because I thought they. Kind of wanted somebody to.

UNKNOWN: Stick their head.

ROSA: Above the power pit and try something had been done. For ages. That is literally what has always happened with the struggle when it's pushed forward by by revolutionaries and no. The comrades, of course, don't get a *******. Saying whether that that they are challenged like that, it it does, ask them to step up. To the plate. It asks them to be serious about the things they've been saying, but that has never been the case in a revolutionary. Ever did a ******* referendum among their. Comrades to say, do you mind if? Like try to push the struggle. Forward and you will. You will of course be required to. Show solidarity and stuff. You know that this never happened, isn't what happened now and it's wild. I just don't think that they wanted to see another revolutionary maybe. Or maybe they think it's that we're saying something, or they think something about themselves based. On the fact that it's. They did it. On them we had a lot very. Little to lose. Why the **** do you think anybody? Would do this. Like I said, we could have just been like any other anarchist YouTuber who we value the ******* contribution of. We've never said otherwise. Aaron Jones talking tons of leftist. You know, content graders, leftish content creators you know in the UK, we're very we're not hostile at all to them, so of course we don't think less of somebody than not having literally put their life and liberty on the line. And I don't know whether it. Is that petty kind of ohh well they. You know, probably think we're better than. They're better than them like so. I don't wanna help.

ELLIS: One of the reasons for that disunity.

ROSA: You do now if that's your response, but.

ELLIS: One of one of the reasons for leftist unity is that we don't. We we don't say everybody has their place in the revolution, even if all it is is posting left is memes on social media and spreading. The word that way everybody. Plays their role in the revolution. The only the only thing the only choice you've gotta make is which side you're gonna be on.

UNKNOWN: You know what?

ELLIS: No, everybody you there there is no sitting on the fence.

ROSA: That's the thing.

ELLIS: Do you know what I mean?

ROSA: It's central to the politics that we're mental share. You know, even ******* lives are meant to get this. That silence isn't neutral like insert endless ******* quotes about if you're neutral in in the you know cases of oppression. You've chosen the sliding oppressor. I mean come on.

ROSA: This is how.

ROSA: What the truth is in our awareness. Of our situation, you're already on the state. Right? Yeah, because it helps them for people not to. Know that's not your fault.

ELLIS: Right?

ROSA: But once you. Become aware and you don't talk about it. You don't. Call it and you don't even say. This looks really soft as.

UNKNOWN: Hell, and you don't have to.

ROSA: Associate yourself.

ELLIS: Sure, sure.

CORY: I guess there's a couple of thoughts that I had while you were talking. The first is like the idea that I think.

ROSA: OK brilliant yeah I.

ROSA: Mean she said all this before so so new stuff.

CORY: I just I think that I think that sometimes the idea, like when somebody might ask like well, why target you? I think that that's a very online perspective, right? Like if you are active in your day-to-day life, if you've been active in the past, that's not going to necessarily show up on your YouTube feed or your Twitter. Because you know, and so then. Yeah, the fact that you have. Yes, less than 10. 1000 followers isn't like isn't relevant to the targeting of the police. To you.

ROSA: That nobody else has said this, at least in the ******* WI. Wouldn't like to ask. For the rest of the world, you know. I'm going to have to do that, but. Nobody and we've. Been asking for months please. Just name us one other person. That they would do this to if they were gonna do it to a self. Declared revolutionary.

ELLIS: Yeah, I mean.

ROSA: Nobody's given us an answer, and if you. Can't you know answer that you cannot dismiss that this could be a ******* fit up because we're anarchist revolutionaries and that means this matters to all of.

ROSA: You you unless you.

ROSA: We're just never serious. Unless when you post about revolutionaries. It's larping rather than ever wanting to see.

ELLIS: the things.

ROSA: You again and also one thing. How likely is it? That we will ever see one again if it went like this for us the first time in decades. Somebody tried ******** guys sorry sorry I'm calmer now, but you've got to understand, this is literally months. We've been raising this alarm. You've got to understand. My life was absolutely hellish, and I only existed. Because I believed I could. Make change for other people and then. And then it's actually had some other reason. But I still. Pursued that part to the fullest I could, because that's partly what brought us together. I still pursued that only because I had faith that people wanted to see somebody stick their head above the parapet like this, only because I thought we would have some solidarity and my God. If this is how it goes, if we, even if we make it through but no more people really give a ****. You will never see, never see another revolutionary. Try this again because to be honest if they ask me personally. Would it be worth it? What the **** can I say? I tried to kill myself last week and considered actually putting myself potentially in the hands of an enemy in a psychiatric ward yesterday. What the **** do you think I could say? I don't lie, I would have to tell them the truth and right now I would have to tell them don't bother because they don't want change enough. Yeah, I'm sorry, but you know if people, if they haven't got the sense that this would be the response. I mean, you can find on our website on the about. Page at the top of the. Page I wrote that. Two ******* years ago when it talks about the risk I was taking with this good life, I'd finally found.

ELLIS: Tend to attack a bit and go back to something you were saying earlier about online content and it being a very online view. Yeah, and. Obviously, being an illegal list activist for most of my life. A lot of my activism can't be put online on social media.

ROSA: Exactly, yeah, I mean you're in prison afterwards, so you're.

ELLIS: Yeah, I mean it, it's only I mean to be honest, I've I've done so bloody much. That a lot of it just fades into memory. You know what I? Mean and it's only now that I like a few days ago when I started writing this thing. This statement that we we're gonna put out that I actually started remembering things that I've done. Do you know what I mean? And it's yeah, it's. Like I said, because it's a legalist activity, most of my online activity is spent shitposting revolutionary memes and arguing with landlords online and stuff. Do you know what? And like yeah, just generally like harassing capitalists.

ROSA: The fact that I started talking about you know things like Black Rock and riots on my YouTube channel, and it was, you know, I was also starting to work with and then pop up with somebody who has been to riots. A number of riots many times and engaged in action that nobody has for a long time. Because you know, leftists like haven't been that bold in this country for a long time. He's, you know, obviously older than me and I'm kind of guessing that some. People have, you know, just looked at that and thought must be true then which is the dumbest thing? In the world. The other thing about whether it's an online view? And the question of why we'd be targeted? I mean, I've written extensively. We both have. About why that would be now, the simplest thing in the world would be to just take up the request. I have been putting out for. Such a long time which is. To just ask us. Because and So what I? Was saying to you of.

ELLIS: I mean, if so, if so, what's?

ROSA: Course is I'm basically having to imagine what peoples questions and skepticism is based on, because nobody.

ELLIS: It's obvious you get nearly.

ROSA: Is willing to. Put it forward and allow us to actually respond. We have to anticipate things and then go ohh, they probably do want something that I maybe consciously. Believed we were taking a few. Drinks they would be talked to by. The state at some point they probably. Do only yesterday. Now somebody could have just said. Well, how do I know that you expected state retaliation like you say? Right, somebody could. Have just asked us and this is what I'm. Saying about engaging. What I'm saying is that you cannot say. With a warrant that was. Obtained 2 days before the alleged crime and basis for that warrant. The only basis they've ever claimed. Right, you cannot say that it is any way right? Not to at least engage because ohh God, if you can't dismiss the fact that this could be a fit up, which I don't know how you ******* could right, then you neither can you ignore that this could be a ******* grave injustice that is a direct attack on your politics. Yeah, on the desire for change. Yeah, on what you apparently approve of and like when you post about old revolutionaries but. What don't want to see? Now, and you're. Not even going to give it the time. The consideration to just ask us considering. We have made it. I didn't realize people would want to anonymously and it. Turns out we were not two questions by that anyway. But eventually I was like fine. If you don't, if. You wanna be alone? Let's do that, but if you. Don't even doing that right, don't understand. They thought that people that I expected some. I thought they cared. This **** I thought they care about wrongful. Convictions, whoever they. Happened to I certainly thought they would care. That somebody who who. Took this risk in complete obscurity, knowing we would never achieve that much and that we would be in an uphill battle we would be. An unknown factor. When the retaliation came. You know, if I wasn't so disabled. And so funked up. I would have maybe done things the right way. I could have got more done. Right, I could never have competed with the **** journalists that I am better than every single one. I've broken stories at least three times at least a year, sometimes two years before the rest of the mainstream media. It's it's. True, I've got YouTube videos that would take what? Would take out a. Year 2 years before and I find these articles and I'm like 2 years. Ago this one you know. Take a lot of risk and was already. Aiming squarely at. This distance just. Not for revolution, right? And then.

ELLIS: She gave a platform.

ROSA: To some really.

ELLIS: Two and any can islamicist. Who has No Fear of taking? Action, you know what I mean?

UNKNOWN: Right?

ELLIS: That's a dangerous mix as far as the state is concerned. Yeah, cause all it takes. I mean I, I do I radicalise ******* everyone I meet you.

ROSA: We it to our our landlords.

ELLIS: Did you know? I radicalized our landlords right hand man the site manager for the site we live at. I radicalised And told him his landlord was taking him for over 5 grand a day and labor value.

ROSA: Paid full rent since.

ELLIS: You know what I? Mean it's yeah.

ROSA: You know, like and.

ELLIS: Yeah we have.

ROSA: This is after the conversation started with. Him, kind of. Taking out beef that we have with the. Landlord on him, right? And then he went. Sorry I'm sorry. It's your landlord, like I didn't expect the conversation to like end on good terms at all, let alone him actually convince him that the man's being exploited Ellis is an incredible advocate. I wasn't an I wasn't a revolutionary when. I met I wasn't. In a kiss when I met him. Now if anybody is. Confused by the age gap in my attraction. To him, just listen to him. For a ******* while. He's been let off the leash now in terms of offering his own post, that Boomer still won't ******* touch Twitter, but he follows the mustard and you see them and it will not make sense for long. It will not not make sense for long. It will make total ******* sense. Why someone like me would just ******* love this man. Right and I am his ******* wife I. Can attest that there is. Absolutely nothing about his sexual aberrations that indicate. An inclination like this offense implies just nothing, literally nothing. The complete opposite. Like yeah, it's and like I said, to be honest with the way. I am with how? How much I? ******* hate. These kind of. People, if I found a single. Reason not to trust him in a even with a single reason in a moment of. Well I know would be madness. I could have killed him. The fact he's breathing is that he, I mean. I told.

ELLIS: When when the police rang me, when they charged rose with threats to kill.

ROSA: This is what I was getting to with. Sorry, I got the story trying.

ELLIS: they called me here.

ROSA: To kill him by suicide.

ELLIS: They called me here and I later found out it was police constable that called me. He told me he was a Chief Inspector and he also said that. He wanted to kill me. These were his first words were. Hi I'm Chief Inspector. Something or other? And your wife just said that she wants to kill you. Do you want to send me a statement? The victim as the victim? Yeah, that that was what they said over the phone as soon. As I picked it up, yeah.

ROSA: And when they told me that that's what they've done.

ELLIS: And I my immediate reaction was what the **** have you done to my wife? What have you said? To drive her to this point because the last time I saw her, I was outside your neck with my my tongue. Down her throat. Yeah, what the **** are you? Talking about. There, there's no way there's the only way that Rosie would want to kill me was it would be if you ******* ********* had persuaded her that these allegations were somehow true. Yeah, and. I mean, The thing is, if you persuaded me that these allegations were somehow true about Rosie, yeah, I'd ******* kill her too.

UNKNOWN: Yeah, yes.

ROSA: Right?

ELLIS: That threat to kill is credible is what I said to him that threat to kill is credible, the same as my threat to kill. Her is credible.

CORY: I just don't believe that she actually did it, yeah?

ELLIS: Yeah exactly yeah, absolutely. And what I said to him is right. I'm coming down there now and I'm coming to pick up the wife.

ROSA: Yeah, yeah, The thing is. When they told me that they called him and told him. This my instant reaction, just like instantly noticing and pointing out why they had. Me arrested me for threats to kill and lied about my words in the 1st place which. Was to somehow tried. To put it on, record that it looked like I believed them. For a moment. Which they won't be able to. Do now. Because they just humiliate themselves with that. Specific TV buying like I explained but.

ELLIS: There's also the dates that we discovered the other day, yeah?

ROSA: Yeah, we'll get to that in a second. I just want as soon as they told me that they called him and told him this. I did the same thing and I said. You trying to ******* kill him by suicide? How do you think somebody would feel like they've got extra safeguarding duties around suicide in these kind of investigations after like a number of like this, local police police force different powers. There's a story about like 20 families that were wrongly identified and investigated for this. And like so I don't know if these safeguards were put in, it was because of a computer virus, which is, you know, could be what?

UNKNOWN: OK.

ROSA: This is. But I don't believe it is judging from the completely locked up police conduct at every. Stage of this as well.

CORY: Right, it just seems so fabricated.

ELLIS: But the other one is.

ROSA: The fact that nobody brought a claim will claim.

ELLIS: They've come out with some really suspicious behavior.

UNKNOWN: To believe it's.

ROSA: True means that I don't understand how anybody can possibly ignore this and not say at least that the state has questions to answer here. I don't understand I found it absolutely staggering and like I said, it's not what I ******* expected. And if it's what I knew that I'd get, I would never have risked the life that I'd finally enjoy living with Ellis, I would never have ******* done that. But the the. About this first thing I want to say it was.

ROSA: OK.

ROSA: Before you talk. About the dates. This thing with the warrant. Frustratingly, we could have noticed this ages ago that warrants been, you know, up on the wall for months in an envelope and cut ********, but you know. Every time we looked at it.

UNKNOWN: Right?

ROSA: It's only.

ROSA: Yeah, I mean. Like you know it it it didn't seem relevant. At the time, but. Obviously it was only when we were interviewed. I was meant to be interviewed on the same day Ellis was and the day that they tried to section me, but obviously my reaction to just the discussion with the. Lawyer describing the evidence they claimed to have. You know was triggering enough to to **** me up. I had a big outburst and.

ELLIS: They've postponed it.

ROSA: Yeah, that that was actually after I had already assaulted an officer by the. Way, and I totally did do that. Like didn't do that.

ELLIS: Very proud of that. You know, assaulting the police very.

ROSA: Proud of that.

ELLIS: It should be, yeah.

UNKNOWN: You know?

ROSA: What the police is having somebody arresting somebody for assault on a police officer and having them react like a captured guerrilla fighter? Reeling off half of an unwritten manifesto and declaring their actions to be right and part of a much bigger. Like they had no ******* idea what to do with it. Every single one of them backed off to the wall and was silent. They have no idea how to react and. I think and. It's precisely because they have no idea if. Somebody would dare do. That now and I guess I. Guess that's why no one's taking this. Seriously, they don't. Think anyone would dare do that now? Yeah, we actually we did.

ELLIS: The other one is they also know that my feelings are exactly the same as rose as far as the police. The charges that you know. I mean, as far as I'm concerned in my. Interview with them. When this person sat in front of me this ******* ****, it sat there describing images of *******. Children being abused. And I, I mean to me, that's ******* disgusting. It's the it's their exploitation of those images to get to us. Is only the. Half of it. The fact that they're willing to exploit those kids, and the fact that that have already been exploited.

ROSA: Good morning.

ELLIS: Yeah, yeah, that is just. ******* beyond evil. You know what I mean and that that drove me to breaking point.

ROSA: It would be on the table.

ELLIS: And because I have PTSD with police that we declared already, yeah, it's driven by the police. That's why I did no comment interview. I made a statement, prepared statement, and then there's no no comment.

ROSA: The other thing that probably unnerves them they probably could imagine interviewing anarchists where they both like on ideological grounds doing local. Interview or that they both talk to a limited extent. It probably did. Unnerve them a bit that one of them was. Prepared to talk to a limited extent. I am *******. Done now for reasons we'll get on to later, but to have the other one say no. I don't think I should say anything at all in case I have a reaction, probably together.

UNKNOWN: Right, right?

ROSA: You know, so when you did actually say something other than no comment, they stopped.

ELLIS: Yeah, I mean yeah, they. Did I mean it wasn't like I just found? You know what the ****? Are you doing I I? Well, what the **** are?

ROSA: You do it you.

ELLIS: ******* animal get the **** out of here. I need a break now I wanna talk to a ******* solicitor and the pair of them. Hurriedly left the room because I do have previous for violence against the police, and I do have PTSD driven by police. Do you know what I mean so?

ROSA: Whole system prison officers.

ELLIS: The chances of me attacking them was. Pretty ******* high.

ROSA: Police, you know it's right. I mean I. I don't know it's being mentioned, but Alice is being in prison a number of times. You know he's being put in hospital by cops. You know this PTSD around police? You know he's you know was sort of traveler like.

ELLIS: I've fought cops on a few occasions.

ROSA: He had family. At the Buffalo Beanfield right, you know. He's probably has a long way existing hatred for cops.

ELLIS: I was in prison at the time. I was I was I was on the convoy at the time. Yeah, and my boss and my girlfriend were at the Battle of the Beanfield at Savernake Forest. Yeah, and at the time I had to watch it on television from in prison. Yeah, I watch.

ROSA: Police waiting in and battering women, children, men just.

ELLIS: I watch, yeah. I watched my wife get ******* battered. I watched my home getting destroyed on the news, sat, eating my lunch. In prison. You know what I? Mean I ******* hate the police so much man but **** the states **** police, **** **** up, that's the.

ROSA: And the reason we, the police are all. On record, they can't deny them.

ELLIS: Only way to go.

UNKNOWN: It's like I said.

ROSA: To them I.

UNKNOWN: Didn't believe you.

ROSA: Before, because I don't believe cops, but you've now lied about me, provably because in the fact that you can't prove it and I've got witnesses that say I said something.

UNKNOWN: Right?

ROSA: Why in God's? Name would I believe you now. Yeah, so when I start looking in the thing I was gonna say the warrant which needs to come before the interview is obviously people are. You know, if they doubt this, they're not. Really thinking about. The fact we're. Obviously we're gonna have to prove everything we're saying now. In a court but.

UNKNOWN: You know?

ROSA: I guess. People might think, well, how do we? How do we know that the allegation that the police say that the basis of the warrant happened on the 19th right? Because otherwise it could be before the. 17th and then. We're like like if you start, if you think we're lying, just say so and we'll, you know, actually engage and challenge that. But also we'll have to prove this in court. And also also we phoned our solicitor and told them about this. Fine that we only noticed today. You know a few Thursday. Which interesting is? I I've said a number of times on social media has just died. Both of them. Are Mastodon too. Which is really weird since Thursday and I got a message from somebody today because I linked them into a thread and they said. I haven't seen anything from you since Thursday.

ELLIS: Yeah, it's like our social media's been shut down. Yeah, since we posted a picture of the warrant that was made out two days before the alleged crime took place.

ROSA: And Sarah, my oh, that Lauren and.

ELLIS: Yeah, right right yeah.

ROSA: Explain innovation is now the other thing to bear in mind which is. Could have been achieved by the simplest thing of a policeman reporting a tweet of ours the way any Twitter user. But but immediately upon my release from the 12 hours that day, first time we checked with her, we were suspended for a week. Somebody sabotaged our SOS and we had to put it out for a whole. Week to less than 300 followers in. Our on our backup account. Now you know. But anyway, we have spoken to our lawyer and verbally confirmed with him that he. That no date on which images were accessed, which is what they said the warrant was based on, based on an automated flagging system that recognizes things about an image, and then they obtain a warrant based on it. Now first of all, yeah, even if the warrant was got in a. Normal time frame yeah? Which is that would have meant a two day turn around. Because they said to us, which we only learned once being interviewed that the first date the images were accessed were the 19th. They say that there was another one, but they didn't put that in that date to me in my interview, but that's that's say that they still are gonna maintain that that's the 21st. We're rated on the 23rd no the 22nd, so that means that three days elapsed between apparently a flag on an automated system and a physical raid and seizure of the device.

ELLIS: Right?

ROSA: I need.

UNKNOWN: To get a.

ROSA: Freedom of Information request. I was like this can't be normal like they can't nothing that happens this fast. Not in the interest of the ruling. Class, you know? And our lawyer was like you don't need an FOI like I've you know represented all kinds of cases, including these. It's usually months that people are accessing this stuff before this stuff is actually like from the point in which they first do being flagged and then actually being picked up. It's categorically not normal. The other thing he's confirmed? To us now is. That they have never put to the state. And bear in mind they may change this because they've changed some of the things, but he's confirmed with us in the last few days that they have never put a date prior to the 19th. Certainly not prior to the to 17th on which images were accessed and therefore the basis of that warrant could have been obtained.

UNKNOWN: Right?

ROSA: Now the thing they did change, which was really interesting and like and and here comes the kind. Of question over lawyers. Maybe integrity but damn sure ability to help with the way legal aid's being gutted like. I mean, obviously we were aware of those malign consequences of austerity on legal aid, like obviously it's part of the whole reason we. Oppose this system. But my God when you want to get rid of your lawyer. Because even though he backed. Me that on what I said that I didn't say I'd kill. Others he still. Came back with like system justification of. I'm sure they thought it was reasonable and I. Was like dude, we can't have somebody.

ROSA: Who is gonna like?

ROSA: Afford so much benevolence to to the. State in our case.

ELLIS: No, just. Turns out that threats to kill in the UK shows a maximum 10. Year prison sentence.

ROSA: Hey Kendra. Yeah, and you think?

ELLIS: Wow, they're they're talking about 10 year sentence.

ROSA: The other thing I will point out here is. By trying to section me they almost. Managed to remove. My liberty in a way that could have. Been made permanent with no judicial. Process all they need. Once your section is adopted to say they need to stay sectioned and you will never get out, they almost took my liberty for ******* forever and people voted together anyway. the point is in in. The in the intro. You with me this suddenly claimed some not new evidence. Aspects of the evidence like dates and times that they never put to us and we know. That they never put to. Us despite 1 aspect which weirdly does show up in the lawsuit, but we'll explain why. We just don't believe. That that we were ever told this this thing so. Some people who have been following. This, along or or are now and have seen. But there was a lovely. Week, a lovely early week. Where we thought it was some particular local flash who did this. I mean, Ellis always thought this was a possibility. It was my favorite or not favorite.

UNKNOWN: Right?

ROSA: I mean obviously not favoured and that's why we were so eager to believe this Nazi theory. Once we found some threats to like dropping in ship with police and they were clear they didn't care if it was something that that that he had done or. Haven't gone through like. Maybe it you know it was. Them, and that is obviously. Verbal this is the only reason I kept talking to the police at all and spoke to them and that stopped my interview because I was presenting this evidence. Now, the only reason we accepted that theory. Was because we were. Told I was told to by the lawyer. Because you, you're. Told what the police are going to put. To you by. The lawyer and then you have the interview and the. Police put those things to you. They put to us the times for these image accesses as 4:00 AM and 5:00 AM. So it was reasonable to think given that. The these these particular local fascists are are like properly local, the rest of their kind of fascist gang from Wales were all lethal, eating in the area around those days. And so anybody who wasn't local but had the requisite skills would have been in. The area to. Do it and if they were going to do that, it would have been in the middle of the night. Right, no, not surprising that that they might **** *** halfway through and come back and finish it the night after next. Given that we would have been sleeping. In the next bloody. Room, so anyway, that's why we accepted this theory because we believed that the claim was these images were. Most at 4:00 and 5:00 AM now in my interview. They suddenly said as I was giving them this defense, which we believe to be true and like. It's really unfortunate that we put out incorrect information, but we've made every effort to explain our reasoning, and there's plenty of proof that this is not a change in defense and that we spoke. Previously before that week about believing it was the state, but just plenty of it. And you know, people should have just bloody asked if they were doubting that. But the reason we that it became apparent to. Me that it was actually the state, like Iris. Thought well they suddenly said because it seems this you know, albeit accidentally effective, but a somewhat effective defence. They sought to evade that by suddenly claiming. Well, actually you know that those things just access at 9:00 AM, so they couldn't come in. During the night I was. Like who are you talking? About, there's never been put to us now. The reason why I am just convinced that we were never told that is I remember the ******* conversation, but also every alarm in the House goes off to tell others to give me my medication at 9:00 o'clock.

ELLIS: At 9:00

ROSA: I didn't remember to say this because. I don't remember taking. My medication, which is why alarms. Go off to tell Alice. To do it for me and stuff.

ELLIS: Yeah, every morning 9:00 o'clock the whole house wakes up because every alarm goes off.

ROSA: But anyway.

UNKNOWN: Right?

ELLIS: The dogs go crazy so you know what I mean there's.

ROSA: There's no way Elias could do anything in this small caravan without me knowing about it at 9.

ELLIS: There's no way.

ROSA: O'clock he would have.

ELLIS: It's ******* ridiculous.

ROSA: Just given me ******* pills I would be awake drinking coffee that you've made me. That's impossible now the other bit everything for this. In what aspect of the base of evidence previously? Mind that they introduced at this time that it was completely new to us and clearly brought up to evade this accidentally effective defence was they said. Also, it can't be people during the night, because actually that list of search terms and they're talking here about you know, like a list of the kind of. Search terms that a ********** would use when looking for this stuff. OK, are you talking like a Word document with a list of words? Nothing that could flag their system. That would be a basis for that warrant. So even though they've suddenly changed and said it couldn't be them during. The night because that was created in March, right? Even though they said that that couldn't be the basis for this warrant at all, so so it's that. Isn't explained that way. The other thing is. We were on OK. A lot of people might think this weird. I know that people in our life thought it was a bit weird at the time, but we were basically on video call almost 24/7 at.

ELLIS: It was 24 so.

ROSA: It it yeah it was.

ELLIS: Eight we even slept with the cameras on.

ROSA: Like my life was not great and I was very isolated in a home where I was not very comfortable and you know, working on activism was literally my life. The only reason I wanted to carry on with life so when I found somebody prepared to work with me somebody I also really liked and I was the one that hit on him. By the way, you know? Yeah it it was amazing to spend time with them. My point is there's no way you could have done anything like that and they factually to this day have not claimed any images were accessed at the date at the time anyway. They just say that this Word document like somehow existed was created at date, yeah?

CORY: The supposed.

ROSA: So he couldn't have been doing any of that. They're not even. Claiming that he was. Looking at the images, but it it. Just wouldn't make no sense. Also it was locked down I'm sure. That we won't. Be alone in thinking couples who used video chat or you know particular purposes and you. Know that's just like I said. From the start. To now, there is nothing about the sex we have or what he finds attractive, but in any way indicates this. You know, just at all I mean to be honest, like I have to do a ******* caveat. Access the Internet. I am not saying that everybody who is into the the side of us. And M is. An abusive character, but it is undeniable that abusive characters operate in that scene, because if they're able to still get something out of that with consenting involved. It's a safe place to try and pursue those pleasures. Don't tell me it doesn't happen. You know I've met one when I tried it the other way around, and a little bit of a little bit of a filter matching.

UNKNOWN: OK.

ROSA: Mechanism because like I. Said the abuse by a lot of people there is. I am very ******* careful like everything about me when I am trying to seem attractive. There's some. It is designed to put off anybody who might be interested in abusing or oppressing me. That means even trying to put off people who might want to do that and they're not abusive, but just into that, you know, not king shaving, but I want to be like I wasn't prepared to take that chance and it's a it's a filter mechanism that I employed a long time ago. Because I clearly ******* had teams. Like I said, I was blood in the water to these monsters for a long *******. Time in my life. And so even though it's not. Even a ******* thing that's like. A feature about our sex life. Now the way, the manner in which I hit on him was. a kind. Of ****** kind of. Way that that nobody who's into kids. Which is the pinnacle of the exert of like control and everything over somebody who don't? Can't consent nobody who is into that would be into being a sub to an adult woman, you know. But that's the least of the ******* reasons not to mention all his friends.

ELLIS: I mean, it's a bit of a. It's very paradox.

ROSA: Trust him his. Kids trust him. His son has publicly put out statements what anybody is doing.

CORY: Yeah, and so that.

ROSA: Staying payment at this point is literally inexcusable. I am sorry that I have that it's. Got to the point where. I am morally condemning those people. I am sorry. But that is not my ******* fault, is it?

ELLIS: Yeah, see, I know it's like you know. An anti authoritarian being into authoritarian women, but it's yeah.

ROSA: Let me know what happens. In our politics that this is The thing is the yeah. Yeah, no, I mean it.

ELLIS: They're wearing a police uniform, then I'll. Just ******* fat.

CORY: Right, yeah, that's right. Instant turn off.

ROSA: He likes the librarians. And the pencil skirts, not the book. And like teams and cheerleaders and outfits, you know.

ELLIS: Librarians, nurses yeah man, yeah, bring it on.

CORY: Yeah, so you mentioned that your son put out a statement.

ELLIS: Sorry, what was that?

CORY: Alright, you mentioned that your son put out a statement on on Twitter, so I thought maybe we should discuss that a little bit.

ELLIS: Yeah, absolutely yeah yeah.

ROSA: It's easy to find if you wanna like talk about. It while looking at. It so in in the yeah on our profile there's the pinned tweet which is temporarily the one about this interview. But if you look at. The QT that's. The oh hang on.

ELLIS: Uh, my my sons trans. And I I've supported him in his trans lifestyle since he was 12 years old and decided to be a boy. You know, I absolutely support him. His online name now it's red, which I quite like, but I also have another friend called Red so it does get confusing. But yeah, yeah Jake, he goes by. And yeah that's yeah. Yeah, it's.

ROSA: Yeah, so I just want to find. See, I can only find like other people can't find our tweets right now, but also.

ELLIS: Yeah, basically it. It says that like you. Know growing up. He had, like you know, he had sleepovers with his with his friends. This when he was when when he was a girl. yeah girl, sleep both.

ROSA: You have kids, have friends or your kids.

ELLIS: You've had I've had I've had I've. I've I've got loads of friends with pets.

ROSA: Babies live with you when they couldn't live with their families.

ELLIS: I've got loads of friends with pets, yeah.

ROSA: Nothing until all this ever happened. No child has ever expressed that that they felt uncomfortable. Nobody who knows it with. Us shouting so. Loudly, we're innocent. If there was anybody who believed otherwise. Don't you think you would have heard them, don't you think they would have been in the comments saying don't listen to these people? You definitely like. That don't listen to them, but nobody. 's done that. So what the hell? Are people just finding silence on?

CORY: Yeah, this the thing that really gets that sticks out to me about your your situation is that there is no victim coming forward. This is all claims by police. Yeah and cops lie like we can't trust.

ROSA: From the start, yeah, I mean the question like keep asking myself is are.

CORY: What they say so?

UNKNOWN: You a CB or not like Jesus.

ROSA: ******* Christ, you know it's not like it's been the. Only it's not like our case is the only one in. Which I've said the. Words, unless like I said real, but you know those people got angry at that. Unless like a non cop. Person back something up. Whatever a cop says, assume it's a ******* like take, uh and yeah, the thing. I was saying that about. In that that instance was Chris Carver who was killed not long ago by Met Police. Initially they claimed that. There was a pursuit, they admitted.

ROSA: That well, they.

ROSA: Claimed to admit that that was an accident and it was a rental car and they were. Viewing who they thought still had the car. Turns out there was no ******* pursuit at all and they admitted as such later, just like after the Bristol riots they. Admitted that no police officers were injured, just.

ROSA: Like how many?

ROSA: ******* times.

UNKNOWN: That it's.

ROSA: Happened and I have. Said we both said don't trust the *******. Cop it's like normal ******* people aren't saying a thing.

ELLIS: The other one is saying.

ROSA: Now, I seriously thought that our political community didn't need reminding, let alone it. Would need reminding again and again, let alone.

ROSA: Would still be.

ROSA: Silent, I just it's baffling to me.

ELLIS: I think I mean one one that gets me is I, I think. I was gonna say I feel sorry for the local cops, but I really ******* don't. You know what I? Mean I I've been quite happy.

ROSA: Hated every interaction.

UNKNOWN: Though yeah.

ELLIS: Yeah, but. I think they don't know that this is a state fit up. They've not been told. They're just like you know, they've just been told that something's been flagged on the computer. You know what I mean? Yeah, and they're investigating it like a normal case and then all of a sudden it turns all ******* political on them. And they don't know what the **** to do. I'm I'm even even to the point where I think at Rose's interview in Cardigan. I personally think that there was either Home Office or MI six in the building at the time. Well.

ROSA: I mean. Like there was a bloke in my interview. What wasn't present any of the former exchanges also more talkative than the woman who conducted the interview with Ellis. We've never seen before. He was also also the man who had called me the they had called me a number. The times and twice before claimed that I would have to be interviewed for all of this, like by the cop assaulted and I was like that seems like a wild. Conflict of interest. You know, we told our lawyer and they laughed and said, like obviously we're not gonna let him do that now.

ELLIS: Right?

ROSA: An example of the failure of our.

ROSA: Lawyer is that the cop didn't.

ROSA: Try to do that on that day, but the. Although it didn't like bring up the fact. That they'd like attempted to. Do that which. You know, is a psychological tactic. It's it's. Tucked up and not normal and it's just like with even though he backed me on what I actually said so proves that I was innocent of the threats to kill. He came back with some justification for for them having made that arrest and in my eyes I was like, well, surely in our case we can't have somebody who's still gonna afford so much benevolence to the state in a situation like this, like. We really can't, we tried. To replace him now, I knew this that legal aid was gutted. Oh my God, when you call the Law Society. Which is in the. UK is the body that manages access to. These things and other matters. But you know, private legal professionals as well, but but they manage access to legal aid and we called them because we couldn't find an alternative. We live in like we're all mid Wales and even our legal aid to this is from Bristol. Couldn't come and represent us because legal aid wouldn't cover the. Travel costs. And legal aid also only allows for work literally done inside a police station or a court.

ELLIS: Yeah, you can't have a you can't go. To your solicitor enough. For a meeting in the office.

ROSA: Yeah, we were lucky guy.

ELLIS: You can't, you can't. Even really have a phone call there really.

ROSA: Yeah I asked him to get the recorded interview with Ellis.

ROSA: To check whether his notes were right about 9:00 AM. I told him that 3-3 weeks ago now and he wouldn't. He hasn't done it. The response after a week to my cause I told him at the interview I now can't send this evidence about the fish because I no longer believe it's them. Right we need. To talk, I need to get clarity on these new things they've mentioned before I. Send you anything. Didn't hear anything for a week and then he. Responded just reiterating the police demand for evidence. Not taking into account anything I said. But anyway, when we tried to replace him because. This is after this. Now why did we stick with him? Because when we called the Law Society they couldn't offer Ellis an alternative, but. If he wanted it, they. Did have the Samaritan suicide hotline to hand?

ELLIS: Yeah, we haven't got another solicitor for you, but here's the suicide hotline.

CORY: Yeah, that's not very ******* helpful.

ELLIS: That is the Lord's driver. Not really, not. Which is why we're stuck with this solicitor the best I can do is radicalizing on a like on a ******* crash radicalizing when when I'm eating every single time.

ROSA: Which is why sharing things about.

ROSA: You know what I?

ELLIS: Mean, and that's what I've been trying. So it's crash radicalising you know?

ROSA: He was.

ROSA: He was surprised when when he heard, ever say that that.

ROSA: He used to be on.

ROSA: Because he's disabled, but it was taken away and I remember at the time going my friend, if you were surprised the disabled people are having their benefits taken away. In the UK. I I'm not surprised that you are skeptical of our claims.

ELLIS: Those personal independence type.

ROSA: You know what I mean like but. the thing I was saying about the lawyer. Situation is not only is it you know all this suffering, only ******* worth it. Not because we're off to validate. But because we understand. That anything we sought to achieve by sticking by trying to do this kind of. Agitation for revolution that hasn't been done in. A long time achieves nothing. If nothing's done with that contribution, martyrdom doesn't exist. If nobody will stand up and say, yeah, they will remark for something I believe in. It you become nothing, so it's not about validation. I want somebody to see what we did and say well done and you know it's about actually any of this ******* having Matt. At all, having risked a good life, I have finally found for anything.

ROSA: I've been, I've been.

ELLIS: Desperately trying to come to the to a resolution with the idea. That a possible outcome of this is that. I'm convicted of a sex crime that I didn't commit, and more than likely murdered in in prison in about 2 years time. Yeah, I've been trying to.

UNKNOWN: Right?

ROSA: The thing is, it's not.

ELLIS: Come to terms with this. Yeah, because it is a real possibility, yeah? And I have no problem with giving up my life. For the fun. To give up my life. In such a waste of a way. With nothing coming out of it other than the verification of the left for a crime that I did not commit. That is. The absolute antithesis of what I thought. That's that's the total opposite of what I thought I thought I was going to be killed by cops. I thought I was going to be taken down. You know what I mean? Yeah, because that's what I wanna ******* do.

CORY: Right?

ELLIS: You know what? I mean.

ROSA: The biggest win.

ELLIS: This this.

ROSA: That the state has.

ROSA: Got against anybody, anybody who talks about revolution, anonymously or otherwise. The biggest ******* win they've achieved in a long time was handed to them because they've made people who tried doing this for the first time go. ****, I actually regret that. And like I said, do you think you'll ever see? Anyone else you? May not think we. Were very good at it.

ROSA: But you'll never see anybody do.

ROSA: It better because nobody will try again after this. And the other thing. It's not just about whether it feels worth it to us, or whether you give a **** that.

ELLIS: I don't regret anything.

ROSA: We will have. Wasted our lives. If you feel like there's nothing you can. Do you are forgetting about? Why this thing? Works we need clearly. A public interest lawyer. A lawyer that can. Do more than. Talk to us while we're in a police station and a ******* court. Our case is clearly too complex for that and we will be. Doomed if that's what we're stuck with. Eating with this fine even still even still let alone the fact you're raising awareness of this, which means sharing the post, ideally with some kind of comment that says that you think people should take this seriously.

ELLIS: Every time we. Get embarrassed that.

ROSA: And it looks really SUS. If not saying you believe. Right, because it has more credibility. if other people are saying you should look at this. Too right? So yeah, hopefully. That's something good. The reason why you share that is not only because otherwise all this was for ******* nothing, but because it's. The only way. a solicitor. That might agree to do this. Pro bono might see it. These are very material. Consequences for our chances of ******* surviving this.

CORY: Yeah for sure. Is it is there in in the pay?

ELLIS: Yeah, yeah.

CORY: Is there like a division of regions the way like in the US you have to have a license to practice law in individual states, so where you are.

ELLIS: No, not not really. Not not really. I mean, you know you have the individual nations of Wales, England and Scotland and all of that.

ROSA: Yeah, what? What are you actually asking is better answered by by saying if we are relying on legal aid. We are restricted to lawyers who can afford to travel to us, which means, well, we've tried to find another one. We've got one guy. That's the only one, and when we tried to get an alternative they told us to call suicide hotline. The only way we can get anyone from another district or or another area which they are allowed to do. But the only reason the only way they will is if they are a private legal practitioner that can afford to do. This for free. As a charity in trust. So yeah, yes they can, but only if. If the Pro burner and that crucially.

UNKNOWN: OK.

ROSA: Relies on visibility.

ELLIS: Yeah, otherwise we'll be tired.

CORY: Yeah, well, hopefully we can. We can reach somebody that can put you in contact. A private lawyer that can. Or solicitor that can.

ROSA: Yeah, yeah, that would be good.

ROSA: About like we we got kind of mixed up calling some lawyers and they were actually lawyers that take cases against the police after investigations cause you can't sue the police while you're still being investigated. But when we spoke to them they said we had a really solid. Case against the police and. That we would likely get damages.

ROSA: Now if they can. See that like.

ROSA: I just like say yeah anyway, it's baffling what I can do right now is.

ELLIS: Yeah, yeah.

ROSA: Tweet, tweet the threads that the thread and the tweet that read did. Because I'm I'm on the right page. So if you want to talk about his son's statement now. We could do that.

CORY: Sure, yeah, yeah, let's talk about that.

ELLIS: Yeah, yeah, that's that.

ROSA: So it's right here.

CORY: We're running over an hour now, so.

ELLIS: Sorry for the coughing, late.

CORY: I don't have a ton of. Time left but I. I do want to talk about.

ELLIS: Right?

ROSA: Yeah, there is some retweeted, so it should be at the top of the just under the pins.

ELLIS: Yeah, go ahead.

ROSA: Ohh I mean OK I can, I can read it if it's gonna be OK.

ELLIS: Yeah, just read it.

ROSA: Hang on.

UNKNOWN: Just gonna try.

ROSA: This just in case.

UNKNOWN: Read it OK.

ROSA: Sorry my computer is.

ROSA: Is being really slow? I mean, we actually think. Somebody actually slow computers that that day.

ELLIS: Yeah, that's the. Other ones

ROSA: Because there was some we'll have.

ELLIS: When we came back.

ROSA: To talk about another time.

ELLIS: From the police station, Rosa wanted to access another account because her Twitter account had closed while she was at the police station. It it was it shut down.

UNKNOWN: Oh yeah.

ELLIS: So she tried to, she tried to access her other account and couldn't remember the password which is on. Her main PC and she looked it up on the main PC and it asked her to change to the user account. Which means another account had accessed it, which would have been a guest account and there are no guests, and there are no other accounts on my computer.

UNKNOWN: Right?

ELLIS: So while we were away, someone accessed our password list.

ROSA: Alice was at home when. They called him and told him.

ELLIS: As a guest.

ROSA: That I wanted to kill him like but he. Was only at home for like 3 hours.

ROSA: There was a huge period.

ROSA: Of time, at least five hours, both sides, when we were both out, but. I have just tweeted it. At you, so you should be able to find it far easier. It's not turning up on the timeline. The tweet with the relevant stuff about read statement.

CORY: OK, I'll just bring this up.

ROSA: So there's a screenshot and then it also quote tweets of Fred. Which you'll have to scroll. Back to the top of yeah.

CORY: Here we go OK. So it's got the. Quote Tweet I'm going to bring. This up. On the screen.

ELLIS: Yeah, we don't. I'm so proud of my boy Jake man. Wow, what a.

ROSA: Joke fact that he calls me his stepmom is like the most amazing thing in the world. Like like I said. I have the kind of like the fact that I have a family at all like which is how I refer to. Alice and the Dogs is like. I ******* never like. Genuinely, that was never gonna happen to me in anybody's estimation. The fact that I have somebody's stepson is amazing, and it yeah, anyway? So it's yeah.

ELLIS: Anyway, yeah, the train.

CORY: Yeah, so so we're we're looking at the Reds Twitter thread and he's he says yes. I'm talking about this again. It needs to be ******* talked about. What's happening with my dad and my stepmom is getting ignored. Although I am aware that nobody followed me. For seriousness, that's what you're ******* getting because. This is important. And my father, the man who raised me to be the person I am, and the one person I probably trust more than anyone else in my life, is being accused of the police by of being a pedophile. Having grown up with him and brought my friends around all my life, you'd think I'd ******* notice if he was and I could tell you with 100% certainty that this is a ******* lie. It's a lie so that they have grounds to arrest him and possibly my stepmom, as well As for being non non anonymous revolutionaries online. It's far too early for me to accurately put all the information that's public into this thread, but please read this and read what Rosa and my. Dad are saying. So essentially, red is saying that like yeah. They grew up their whole life around you yeah, and brought friends around and like.

ROSA: I spoke to rent.

CORY: yeah yeah yeah.

ELLIS: And I was just a dad. You know what? I mean, I was just ******* dad like yeah.

ROSA: The thing is, is I? You know you can tell I properly love red and I spoke to him in direct private messages and I said, listen. You know, given that, there's nobody you know claiming that he's done anything to him that it's the police saying he's accessed images which they've detected by police labs doing an investigation of computers which were cleared when they were. Given that there's it's just them saying it. The only person who could make me. Change my mind and distrust him. Is you right now? If you were to tell me that you had any suspicion, like if you if you feel like there's any reason I shouldn't trust him, that this might be true, like and you told me I would be on your ******* so. Right and he he just said I am one. 100 just like you said, it's 100. Percent a lie, he said. It was 100 he 100. Percent trusted his dad. yeah yeah. And he's telling right now that he's going to lose him.

UNKNOWN: He's terrified he's gonna lose. His dad.

ROSA: He should care just for the fact that a kid is saying my parents are being fit up. For political reasons and I'm scared that.

UNKNOWN: He's gonna go.

ROSA: To prison and get killed people should. Care just for that reason alone.

ELLIS: He's a strong boy, darling.

ROSA: I know, but he's all famous.

ELLIS: I know, I know, I know, I know he's had a hard life so far.

ROSA: Wait you for ***** sake.

ELLIS: I know, I know.

ROSA: Anyway, I it's not. Even these other kids trust him too.

ELLIS: All right?

ROSA: I've also spoken to them, but you know, considering they also agree that this is a state fitter for this politics, not all of them are thrilled that we do this. Like you know and.

ELLIS: Yeah, yeah, my stepdaughter really doesn't like the idea that I. Do this, don't talk to me.

ROSA: She doesn't like I.

ROSA: Mean honestly.

ELLIS: But at the same time, roses. Spoken with her and like she's she said no, there's no ******* way. I mean this is not my dad.

ROSA: Yeah, I can understand I'm not wanting. To do like a public statement.

ELLIS: That's where that's that's from my. Daughter ******* hates me.

ROSA: Yeah, exactly like she really is like.

ROSA: Super Mad and they haven't spoken since. Uh, yeah a.

ELLIS: Yes, it's right here.

ROSA: Little while, but.

ROSA: Like if she wasn't gonna say something then like. You know, then there's just nothing to say you know and yeah, and it's. It's a it's a lion and the fact that that literally nobody, not a single person who wasn't a ******* cop, claims to believe it. It should be enough that the fact that the warrant was got two days before the alleged basis for the warrant is, like, you know, that's a recent discovery. But honestly, there's been enough in the public domain for absolutely weeks.

ELLIS: That just throws the whole ******* thing that.

ROSA: And well, yeah, there's been an increase in attention after that. Fine, but.

UNKNOWN: Jesus Christ, I mean.

ROSA: Anybody who's anti cop should be ******* thrilled. To find and to to find some evidence of. Police lying like. That how have they not seized upon it?

UNKNOWN: Yeah, you know and.

ROSA: And I get. That this is hard for those people that we're relying on support from. Who are sexual victim of sexual abuse? As I've said, literally countless times, I am one, that's why they did this. I shouldn't have to do much to convince you to condemn a state leveraging sexual trauma like you. Like I have to seek to weaponize me to kill my husband and myself because they hate my politics. You may hate my politics too but you must see how evil that is now. If you can. Accept what I've said so far, and at least call it out. If not, say you say or or look into it. Rather, to decide whether you actually believe us, which is understandable, it is triggering, that's literally. Like I said, the point. With it, but if you can at least just share things you don't have to fully read the stuff if you've already see as anybody should, that this is weird and the states got bloody questions to answer, and that if indeed our theory is right that it is very evil and it is a weaponization of. Of the kind of pain, literally. You live with.

ELLIS: It's weaponization controller.

ROSA: Imagine imagine it happening to you. I realize it's hard to engage. With the at the same time, you have more reason than many more reason than many to call this out. And I just employ you to to listen to us and. Do that please.

CORY: Yeah, I think that's a good place to stop. Thanks so much for letting me.

ROSA: Yeah, thanks so much for giving us this. Chance to be. Heard out and we're going to watch it on. Playback and see. What was said in the chat and you know, cause I'm sure that we didn't get around to responding to to things that were put in there and you know that that will really help us like I was saying earlier. We've been having to try and guess. What peoples like remaining like uninvolved is based on like what what? Why they're skeptical and so.

UNKNOWN: Right, right?

ROSA: Or maybe it's this. This out, because maybe that's something. It would just, like not only are we willing to answer any question it will really help. Us to see because we. Already know everything like we're living it because and so therefore we know everything we don't know necessarily, and because we put so much out there with so much information we don't know. What we've missed our questions. It's literally a way of helping, and hopefully you know if somehow you still need to know more like just fine, fine, just ask us, but then then you can decide and. And ensure that you're not on the wrong side of of history here. Like I because of my trauma because of, literally the reasons why it was done to Julian Assange and the reasons why they're doing it to me. I didn't defend him strongly enough against. What was revealed to? Be unsubstantiated allegations of sexual abuse. I didn't.

ELLIS: Sorry, I'll be hard.

ROSA: I have sincere. Regret about that? And honestly, when it when you when people realize that we are innocent, it's gonna break their ******* hearts.

ELLIS: That's what inspired me to ring. Yeah, I'm the criminal. Yeah it was. Julian Assange and WikiLeaks that inspired me to initially ring the International Criminal Court about illegal rendition through Scotland.

ROSA: Which is now proven to happen. By the way, honey, it's usually not.

ELLIS: Yeah, it was about two years after I called the court and spoke to the chief prosecutor. It was about two years after that that it came out in the media at that airport. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

ROSA: That's the thing I mean, I did a thread. That's the other thing I was asking questions. And yes, my hands are ****** you. But we've already. Got a thread. Of it, like with the answer probably. We're happy to expand on. But like if you just say 'why would you be talking?' I've literally got a thread on that like I can. Give you that. And then any further questions you have, I'll. Answer those if you say. That if you notice any gaps, thank you for pointing out answer them. In the future you. Know it, it really will help so. Yeah, thank you.

CORY: Yeah, so for for people who listen to this after the after the fact. Check out their website. We are intolerant dot online and yeah try and keep up with this story I do think it's important I. You can't trust cops like you and the state will attack anarchists wherever they can, so.

ROSA: Thank you.

ELLIS: Alright, thank you dude.