Vedeng a Rojava Episode 4: Internationalism
solidarity, her(his)story, strategy, Women rise up for Afrîn, Ş. Barîn Kobane

In the last 4th episode of Vedenga Rojava we had a close look on internationalism and its history. We shared some of the actions which were carried after the appeal coming from Rojava. Small interview with Barbara a long term international revolutionary about actions, strategy and future and with queeranarchists Rêvan and Anna who participated in Women for Afrîn in Stockholm, Sweden with prior experiences from YPJ about inter-sectionalism, real practical solidarity and revolutionary long term perspective.

In Dîroka Şehîd - Memories of Fallen comrades, Serhildan presented a story of YPJ kurdish fighter Ş. Barîn Kobane and talked about systematical implication of patriarchy in the most disgrace way by Turkish state and its jihadist alies and the courage of women facing these brutal attacks.

We summarized some of the criticisms we received and included even more music than usually (sometimes sang along) and in the end we prepared a little surprise for you.

As always we welcome your feedback on vedengarojava (A) riseup (dot) net

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Listen here

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Speaker 1: This program is dedicated to all the international is revolutionaries that left their country behind to fight fascism and face the oppression wherever it is.

Clip of protest chants: A, Anti, Anti-Capitalista, …

Clip of Kurdish music: Lêda u Lêda YPG - YPJ

Vedenga Rojava!

An internationalist radio project.

Speaker 6: An inside look at Afrin resistance.

Speaker 7: Overviews.

Analyses

Interviews

Speaker 8: Memories of shahids.

And a lot of good music.

You can find us on...

Speaker 4: Soundcloud.com/vedengarojava.

Anna Campbell quote: If we want to be victorious, we have to admit that our fight today is a fight for all or nothing. It is the time of bravery and of decisions, time of coordination and organisation. It is the time of action.

Speaker 4: Dembaj, dembaj.

Unknown Speaker: Dembas.

Speaker 1: So welcome to this fourth extra episode. We are really happy to be here once again in this. Final extra program that we want to share with all of you and we want to talk a bit more about the internationalism.

Speaker 10: And here in the microphone like always Heval ...

Speaker 1: Hello.

Speaker 4: And I'm Kava.

Speaker 10: First of all, we want to share with you some critics that. People that is listening to the program share with us and we are really happy that they received some many comments. One of them is that we didn't put the many voices of Kurdish people and we have to admit that this, that's true. That is also difficult for us to do translations and everything for this we want to. To share with you and to to to say to you that you can find these kind of voices in in other in other places, in other platforms like for example Info Center of African Resistance or the agencies like IMF or Howard. So please check it in Internet they are in there.

Speaker 4: And we kind of knew about this limit from the very beginning. This for us it was clear choice to do it with this compromise, which we might not like ourselves that much or not to do the radio at all. We come from different structures, as we said in the beginning and. Our resources and time was limited and your other fund to do this as like an entry gate for you for finding all these Kurdish voices which are already out there. And I hope you can seek for them and we we can just work as this medium to to give you the first step to the Kurdish revolution. And as we said many times, the best how to how to figure out how to feel the solution yourself. Just like your stuff and come here to your job if you can. The second criticism was about our our episodes being. Wrong. And also not explaining enough and this is this is obviously the contraction we have. Yes, we do know our episodes which were supposed to be one hour. Then we said one hour and a half. Actually we're 2 1/2 and more than 2 1/2 hours long and it is programmatic and it's probably probably hard to. Hard to follow them. We understand that on the other hand, we have criticisms that. There is not enough explanations of some of the things which are in interviews. So to balance these two things was very difficult. And ended up as it ended up. But we take this criticism and at least. For. This. Episode finally, we will try to push it down, at least under 2 hours, one hour and a half. Let's see how it's going along.

Speaker 1: There was also the critic that we are putting a lot of the Kurdish music that we are sharing. It's some somehow we're mixing with some Western influence and this electronic stuff and that's really true and for like trying to. Like think more about this in this last program we will share like pure Kurdish music.

Speaker 4: So again, if you want to share our our stuff, we do our episodes, our radio program, please put it out there, share it with other people so they can listen to it. And you can find us on SoundCloud com Slash Berengar, Rojava. You can send more and more critics. You can comment straight on SoundCloud or you can send more critics to Beringa Rojava. At. Rise up dot.

Speaker 1: Net.

Speaker 4: But never Ali made it. No mistake. He made it this time on the first try.

Speaker 10: And finally, we will present about what is going this program. As we say, we are going to speak more about internationalism and all of these actions and demonstration and solidarity that came all around the world with the offering resistance and against this massive illegal occupation of. Turkeys inside. Yeah. And we will have some interviews, small interviews with people that became participant of this solidarities in some part of the principle in Europe. And also we will share with you a political analyze with a person that is here for. A long time participation actively in the in the international aid movement. M for him we of course we will have our section Hida that we want to dedicate to baring Cubane while one of the say hits woman she hit that fall in offering in a really heart conditions and we want to share with you. Her story, her since then, and her bravery.

Speaker 4: So no charity but celebrity.

Anna Campbell quote: We send you all our bravery and willpower, we send you all our love. You who fight with us and light the fires of resistance.

Speaker 11: Bush.

Speaker 8: Push.

Speaker 3: Haha.

Speaker 2: Rose Bush, terina rosebush, rose Bush, merila rose.

Speaker 1: Oh, these guys. Rojas from beautiful song. And we continue now with the point of internationalists because we are presenting ourselves as internationally. Radio project and we also want to to explain why we. We are so happy to be able to, to present ourselves of international needs, project radio project because internationalists have a long tradition of struggle and a lot of revolutionaries from all around the world that left their country back to face fascist forces and to face the oppression wherever it is and somehow. Biggest example and the first important example in the history, is in the the first internationals of the workers when a lot of socialist revolutionaries from all around the world come together for research to join together against the capitalist that was being expanded.

Speaker 7: But there are a lot of.

Speaker 1: Beautiful examples on all the history.

Speaker 10: Yeah. In fact, the, the, the fight that was in against the 1st is in the Spanish Civil War, where more than 60,000 internationalists from a lot of different countries went to to the, to the Spain to to fight the the fastest. Frankism is one of the main examples of this of this holiday. City and also they they called the Socialist Organization made at this time no advertising that if we don't stop fastest here the fastest is going to spread out and it's exactly what happened, no.

Speaker 1: And we can see also the relation of what is happening and what has having been happening these years in at these times in, in African resistance, but. I also want to put the focus on all the international resistance that happened in a lot of different countries when these kind of imperialist wars happened. One of the biggest examples is also Vietnam. All the resistance that happened in a lot of different countries all around the world, but also all the international solidarities with this. National Liberation struggles like, for example, the the Argelia in war and all the resistance that happened inside the French state. Itself and a lot of beautiful examples, but we want to put the our focus on Afrin and we sell in Afrin a lot of international list that went also to to fight the Turkish Fascism Army and face this, this fascist that somehow a lot of people is making this connection like fascism is growing in Turkey. Like the government of Erdogan, it's getting stronger and if we don't stop them now, it can grow and somehow dash was the main example of this fascist that it's been developed. And now with this Islamic Islamist face, we can say. But the main point is this centralized it and fascist structure trying to. Impose their their own fundamental view in the society and repressing and spreading the fear inside the society for Control it.

Speaker 12: And of course.

Speaker 4: Fascism is not going on in Turkey, as we all know, like it's it's one capitalism missing crisis. Since it's begging, it means these times of war, these times of like nationalist uprising to keep people separated together because the nationalist identity is the only goal. What people in a national state can keep them together. So.

Unknown Speaker: Getting.

Speaker 4: If you think that the nation is in your country, the fascist in your country hate dash. Probably they do because there are fishes from somewhere else having some another religion, culture, ethnicity or whatsoever, but actually dash and nationalism, nationalist or fascist in Europe, they only reinforcing each other and by needs fascism in Europe as much as fascism, fascism in Europe. Is that for its existence? So we must realize that people come in from Syria, from Iraq, Iran, from the, let's say, from Turkey, also from Russia, from Kurdistan. They are not our enemies. They are people who fighting the same forces they facing the same problems as we, facing just in different colors and in kind of different smell in different environment. But these people just much harder on their own skin, facing the exact same roots of problems which we're facing.

Speaker 1: And we can see how in rest of us since the beginning of the revolution in 2012, a lot of internationals come here to to face the the Islamist forces and all these fascist attacks that the the people and the society in Rojava have experienced. And since the the first day. And is this. Color of internationalism in Russia, and there are a lot of examples that have been developed. One of the main projects that that was at the beginning. Since the first moments. A lot of people came, but there was a really. Like strong point in the people that came just for five days, but some of them just start to organise for go and beyond. And one of these examples is Rojava plan that was trying to develop a a factory of fertilizing and trying to give more meaning to this revolution in, in the sense of how important it is to. Support the revolution and they make this campaign of feed the revolution for and develop this factory of of fertilizers. And since then a lot of different projects start to go. So like JPEG International was starting and a lot of people have been taking part and a lot of different documentaries, a lot of people have been here for reporting the the resistance and the the struggle that has been experiencing Rojava and somehow we are also part of this heritage of. All these internationalism since the last year with the developments of different international instructors, we can see how it's even growing more.

Speaker 10: In fact, in concretely with the resistance of offering, of course, we have always these two sides. No, like in the resistance of the Yep, again, JPEG. Also the international is that the join JPEG and JPEG and this group. But also we have also some international. Civil international that went to offering to try to to put in the medias to try to put in the mass media and also to to make. And more visible what it was the the problem of the invasion and the massacres and everything. And we have, for example, these videos of the internationalist commune that they are calling resistant Diaries. Not that you can't see all the travel of this person that went to offering even under bombing, even with all the difficulties. Travelling with the Kurdish people that that they went also to to support the people in in Africa, not in the in the African city, in the resistance of the Afrin Canton. So we can see that always is 2 side. It doesn't matter. It is a military side or it is a civilian side because the important is like a. Whatever faster it is, we have to came together and struggling against it.

Speaker 4: But it's need to say, as we said in the beginning, in Spain it was about or in a Spanish civil war or Spanish Revolution was about 60 thousands of people coming from abroad. Number of people who came to Afrin or to Rojava in general, even since the beginning of the revolution. It's nothing compared to that. And then being growing as anarchists or libertarian anti authoritarian. I've been meeting people like. Think if I only worsen 30s organizing myself like I would get a whole bunch of people and get to Spain. It would be so great. Folks, the time is here and the time is now. And if you don't recognize it, then question your position in a. In a society and question, what you're willing to pay, what you're willing to to give to the revolution. Yeah, that **** is scary. Our friends are dying and no one is gonna ever push anyone to take a rifle and go to fight. That is not about that. It's about to to stand up for the fight and realize where the fascism is racing. Where is the real problem? Where it's coming from and what we need to do about it and not just keep talking about past and how we will be. Great to. The only in that past moment or how we gonna wait for some special moment in future to maybe appear we're living day by day and these moments are coming day by day and days after an occupation was a perfect example of what is fascism and parallelism, fascist imperialism and occupation about. And just because it was not in Europe just because it was in not not. In North America, but the people are different. The culture is different. Hell yeah, it is different. And you gotta come here. You're gonna face a lot of differences. And you gotta. Forget about a lot of like your individual kind of liberties, which in the end of the day many of them coming out of our no Liberals, individuals mindset like yeah, you gotta keep thinking and changing yourself. And I think it's a very positive thing because it questions many. Of. Those things at least brings good, healthy discussion. But just because that thing here. Revolution and the self-defense and stuff is happening in the Middle East. I don't know. I mean think about. And you have to come here if you don't want to. You don't have to fight if you don't want to, but at least show the real solidarity back at home. You know, like we present to the Bank of the video from the in the last chapter and I think is exactly what? About what? What? What we talking about, you know, not just like saying on Facebook like, yeah, I like that I support that now. Revolution is much more than just support and like something.

Speaker 10: In fact, just for for telling some words that even with all the Kurdish friends or doesn't matter other friends or Syriac friends that this revolutionary friends that we are here fighting in many ways, they always say it. Even if for example in Catalonia or even if other. Kind of peoples or countries they they are facing fast system. We are going to help. Them so they have really clear that, OK, the time is now in Rojava because it's happened like this. It is a revolution that they have to defend. And of course it's their online online. So. So they, they they is something that they must do it but they they have in mind that only revolution can be in a worldwide spread it. This cannot only be in one part of the world, like all revolutionary. All right, true revolutionary has to be ready to go everywhere to fight and struggle against fascism and against capitalism.

Speaker 1: And we can also ask to ourselves like, what? What happened? What happened that we came from these big socialist movements able to develop huge international solidarity and that today and not so many people is able to come here like there was this call from the International Freedom Battalion. Like to all the revolutionary forces. The socialist organizations should take attention, put attention in on what's going on in Rojava and especially during the African times. It was a really a clear example of an invasion of a fascist invasion. We we face like a lot. Of Islamist forces, even people that was before, with Daesh, there were checkpoints that Daesh and Turkish flags were together and it was a completely imperialist occupation and it was something that a lot of people around the world is talking about Rojava. But then why all the? So we had the power off. And we have been like. Now, 3 hours without electricity. So. We are coming back, but. The main question that we were asking that I was asking and sharing this this way, why all these people is not here?

Speaker 4: And also being here again is not the only option. If you following the. If you want to really follow the. Revolution. And be like learning from that many people say now you you don't have to come here, you know, like figure out what is the freshest enemy at your point where to start the revolution, where to connect with the people at a place where you stay where you live where. You organize where you work. Organized there and that is what the international solidarity is really.

Speaker 10: Yeah. In fact, we are going now to explain or to make a collection about all these actions, solidarity action that we have around the world and we we wanted to also to to share with you because this offering occupation of course brings a lot of bad things, massacres. and really painful things, but also a lot of solidarity came with it and despite.

Speaker 1: We were witnessing, like thousands and thousands of demonstrations and actions and statements from different groups from all around the world, showing their solidarity and taking also part in these resistance. These African resistance, not only in Africa but all around the world, like with different kind of actions against. Different targets that are promoting directly this this war against Afrin.

Speaker 4: Because there there is no safe place in this world. If you feel safe, it's only fake. The only safety we have, the only security license and collective action were for collective liberation and self-determination and liberation.

Speaker 12: This.

Speaker 1: So we have been talking about the Spanish Civil War and this was a beautiful song. Once again, like this song was important in them of the Spanish Civil War. It was, alas, barricadas. And now we hear this version in Kurdish that some friends and translate and sing. And you have. Really. Beautiful video, also in YouTube of the Friends recording this this song, this beautiful wedding barricade. So we want to mention some of the these actions that happen.

Speaker 4: I had heard you. Hi. You can.

Speaker 1: So we want to mention some of the the actions that were happening mostly around Europe, but also in other parts of of the world against this African invasion against African war, in solidarity with the. Having resistance of the people. And there were a lot of different actions in the first day of the occupation, a lot of groups start to to show, as we say, that the solidarity with this resistance and some of the biggest actions were happening in different places.

Speaker 10: For example, we have this campaign that is calling fight for African. That was an unknown group promoted to fight directly against the cooperatives or institutions that are we're promoting the. The offering or getting profit of the offering war. And one of the sample of this action that we were in the this frame of fight for ARM frame was for example, the occupation of the Consulate, German consulate in Crete. Also they expropriated electronical device of the consulate so.

Speaker 4: Ohh headache.

Speaker 1: There were also different actions like attacks against the direct promotions of this war, like for example attacking cars of the meat, like the intelligence service of the Turkish state and MIT in in France, for example, two cars of this.

Speaker 4: I think.

Speaker 1: MIT these Turkish intelligence were born.

Speaker 10: Also really important action against the company Leonardo film Mechanica. This Italian weapon fabrics incorporation that they were selling weapons to the Turkish army. A lot of action also against this company.

Speaker 1: And if we talk about factories of weapons, of course we need to mention dry metal. This German company that was of one of the key enterprises of the production of the tanks that were used by the Turkish army for the Afghan invasion, a lot of different. Attacks and different actions happen to different different places of this rain. Metal company seems like attacking them with balls of paint since blocking the entrance. Since blocking the the trains that were arriving to the. Series and it was a really a main target of this, like for their support and their production of of these tanks. And we can see how Germany was saying that teman we we will not stop, we will stop to sell weapons to Turkey. But in fact what it really happened is that they really increase and they were even selling more weapons to Turkey during this. Suffering invasion.

Speaker 10: Also, I think it's important to mention all of the several attacks that like could this anonymous groups, but other kind of hacker groups that they want want to demonstrate solidarity with the Afghan resistance, make civil attacks against official pages of the. A capper party, and also in concretely talking of politicians of this fastest party, that is acapella and rehab in Turkey.

Speaker 7: Right.

Speaker 1: And of course, a lot of really small and distributed actions against different embassies and consulates of the Turkish state all around the world, and a lot of actions against also banks like the direct representation of the capitalist main system and a lot of. And especially against Deutsche Vanger were several attacks, but also some kind of different banks all around the world and a lot of statements were. Like like sharing these kind of actions mostly in some kind of independent media like in the media in different countries and claiming responsibility for these kind of direct actions and linking all these kind of actions with the campaign fight for African.

Speaker 4: I think there is one thing we must. Open our eyes to when we're talking about these kind of actions, because obviously there's many, many, many people who will say I don't agree. I don't accept these actions are too violent. These sections are. You know, like rather destructive than constructive, not proactive, making bad propaganda and stuff. Their mom, I think everyone should have their opinion and their. Their tactics, their way, how they approach stuff and. They should be respected and what they're doing by the same time kind of be more respectful to understanding and try to see why people take some kinds of action and why they're doing it. And I think when we're speaking about these particular actions, which are obviously supported by hundreds of demonstrations and. Civil disobedience actions and different campaigns. We are not talking about some one insertion is kind of like strike thing coming out of no context. We are speaking once again about war being carried by the second biggest army of the NATO against the peoples of Rojava, against the peoples of Afrin. We are speaking about the fascist occupation of one of the biggest empires in in this world we live in. Which is oppressing, killing, bombing, ****** people trying to swipe their culture, their history, imposing total patriarchy, caliphate, Daesh and using everything possible in destroying the entire ethnic entire nation if what have. You. So. When before we try to judge actions of what is legal, illegal, what is violent and violent, think about the context. What we are talking about. We're talking about a massive war coming from massive empire against the people.

Speaker 1: And if we talk about the solidarity with the African resistance, we need to talk also of the World African Day that happened on the 24th of March. That was a a big example of coordination between. Different solidarity groups all around the world, from different continents, continents, and we saw like more than 60 cities going together in the streets, showing their support of the with the Afghan resistance and standing against the the invasion of the. Army. And it was like action like connected with the wall of Green Day that happened in in 2014 showing the the solidarity with the African with the Covenant resistance against Daesh and was also showing the this solidarity with Afrin against the the Turkish army because it was like. The same enemy at the end, like the people that were attacking African and the people that were attacking Kobani, were also like this internally is like Islamist forces that were determinated to like to destroy the revolution that they took Afrin. But the revolution keep on going.

Speaker 7: And we.

Speaker 2: That.

Speaker 4: What happened? Let's continue. This is the magic of going live.

Speaker 1: Because we want to introduce the next song that we are going to hear that it's this beautiful song from comrade for than this Kurdish group that it's producing this music from the mountains.

Speaker 7: Good.

Speaker 1: In this song that it's lesson brand lesson like. Go, brother. Like like that brother.

Speaker 4: Let's take care of each other. So we can be dangerous and strong together.

Unknown Speaker: Shooting.

Speaker 5: Benga Rojava, an internationalist radio project.

Speaker 6: An inside look on earthing resistance.

Speaker 4: So it's continuing through the 4th episode of Wedding, Gather Java, the International Radio Project, which is today focused on internationalism and international solidarity. We will be speaking now with Haval Barbara or Barbara your dash. If you want a comrade. Intention is, Comrade Revolutionary, who has been for long term involved in different kinds of actions and organizing revolutionary organizing. In different places and we have the great luck to have Barbara here with us here in Rojava, which is. Which is also good thing because she has these different insights and can give us inputs from different angles being in Europe, when all friends that was happening but fairly often travelling. Java. Being able to, you know, compare the notes from different struggles for the same for the same case. So hello and welcome here, Barbara.

Speaker 13: Welcome to and thank you very much for having invited me.

Speaker 4: I wonder if you want to say a bit about yourself. If you you heard the list of actions you've been here with us. If you want to add. Some action or if you want to add. You know, how did it feel from Europe? Because we only see it from here and it might be very different. So if you can compare. The realities.

Speaker 13: Yeah. First of all, I want to say or try to explain what I'm what is the goal of being involved in these movements, revolutionary movements in, in here in Rojava. With these different fighting units, the internationalism, the IB or or. This and but and on the other hand being in Europe and going forward in the revolutionary process that we need in all all over the world, as you said before, in I heard in your radio, so my or our interest is to find the bridge between these two. Revolutionary movements that are here and not here say we say like this, and if you go from 1:00 to side to the other, you realise that it's sometimes it's like 2. And it's and it's one. It's one fight. It's one goal that we have all together. And what is the the what does you needs here is that we are fighting together. The anarchists, the Communist socialist, anti anti imperialist or anti fascists and we here. Because we have a concrete. A concrete goal and a concrete moment of fighting with arms, and so this binds the different interests and revolutionary interests, and we find out that there are many things you needs us more than we. If we stay somewhere in Europe where it is pacification. So there the differences have much more importance than here, so if you go back in in the other planet and we try to to find the bridge. To find out how can we transport the experience we made here as a revolutionaries, and how can we translate it in some way in the revolutionary process where we are developing? So this interaction, this dialectic process between those, those movements. Is something that we are interested to to solve in in some way because the Kurdish movement invites all revolution is over the world to participate, not only to help in a helping way. In a classic solidarity manner, but to come here to learn, because this is a historical moment that everybody of us has in some way to catch and learn when going back. So if something happens, like Afrin, of course we have been in the streets. Of course we have known. That ones that we have to. To make power in in the streets and go on quickly and not waiting, not discussing, not speaking too much, but handling and.

Speaker 4: You mean in Europe?

Speaker 13: In Europe, yes, for the European movement and we had the big, big, big moments with the with the Kurdish people. It's really people, not with their cuddles, but with the people that the the, the woman's, the children, the men, the workers. They came or even in midnight we went. Something happened. SMS went around like, come around to the main station. Everybody came. Even if they had to do one hour with the car. And we the anger we had is was more than than than we had in in Kobani. Kobane already we had the big unity, but then we learned to go together in the streets. Now in the in with a friend we have the we have. It was different. We learned we used what we learned and with the quality of being together. In the streets was new and this was really very, very good also because I think many of the people had in in their homes, in, in, in a friend, they have people they were afraid and that makes you if you're alone at home and from the television and you're looking what is happening. So you can feel also a victim. You can feel that you cannot do anything if you come to the streets and you we go together. The internationalism is, is living is, is real. You can. Touch it. And this was so very important because we turned this feeling of maybe, oh, my, my poor parents or what is happening the the victim to be victim in to to be handling and active now. So this was a really big big feeling. That maybe you did not realize being here. That is something very important and the other point that was very important is that there were two appeals, one from the Kamal and one from the Yep, Big International, that really made a clear position from here. And they said that this is a special character of war. We have to see that it is not only the Daesh, but it is a is, an imperialistic aggressor. It is not. So everybody's involved every imperialistic force that you may find on the world that has some power is involved in this small geographic geostrategic area. And so the that that is a specific quality of of of war that has been conducted. Acted and the the the the complicity of these actors are you find it in your home and you have not to come to. Of course you can come to where you want to help here, but you can stay also where you are because the complicity of and the is is. Do you find it in your city? If you look, you see them. It is your country, it is your government, as is the parties, that is the the the industry, the ARM industry. And it is you have AP in, in, in, in, in, in Switzerland for instance. You know where they are. You know how they handle you have the embassies. So it was quite a good thing because very often the two worlds, because they were fighting and the revolutionary. is not easy to bind together, and here we had a bridge. These two appeals gave the the the bridge to say, OK, militants is we have to use militants. We have to fight and we have to fight the the the enemy that we fight every day. Because not only when war happen. We know what the role of of oppression and so they they play, but in general, so this was was were two points that I wanted to add to what I had heard in.

Unknown Speaker: Hmm.

Speaker 4: Do you have some some like, really spectacular actions you would like to add on a list which we have right here? Of course, we left many actions behind because that list is long, long, but something inspiring which you think should be. Should be expressed in our program.

Speaker 13: And but I wanted to say is that or maybe it's not an 1 action, but it's also some another point in this the these appeals have been welcomed in, in, on an international level and we saw. And you read what the the the texts following the actions. You saw that there is One Direction, even if it was in another countries with in other languages, in maybe even a different code. But the the you realized with through this that in many revolutionary groups cells. Whatever you want to say to.

Unknown Speaker: Let's.

Speaker 13: Call them are going in the same direction and we had the unity without making meetings or big speeches, but we knew how. They're thinking the same way and that that was something also important that we realized how many people. Or thinking and handling in the same or in not the same but almost same direction. I don't know now the English word for it but. Yeah, we have much more in common. Then we thought.

Speaker 4: Do you have? Besides this, another tip suggestion how to well combine how to find a respectful solidarity between these two different worlds between the apologist revolution and other revolutionary movements all over the world? How to how to find respect for solidarity and a point of convergence? While while keeping the diversity, which is also beautiful and important because it's hard, those are different places and different cultures.

Speaker 13: I think when, when, when I when I read read this text I because they have a certain importance. Maybe here you did not realize it like this. But you see that normally the Upper East movement in in Europe is very Upper East. That means they impose the opposite. Knowledge they are they they are something special. Of course they are. But if they come to Europe, they they not it. It's like something separated of the movement and this because they want to learn how you have to use our poison. And that now, please Mr. Way that brings you further on in the revolutionary process, if you do not agree with this or you say yes, of course there are police movement has or the Kurdish movement. Has here a big strategic plan and then we have enormous respect for what they are doing and this is really in for, for the moment in the world, nobody is able to do that. What they, they, they, they do. So even if they sometimes they have a defeat, but the the the strategic project. In the different situations, objective situation they handle and make all the same one big strategic. And they are. It's the Kurdish moon for the moment that is able to do that and nobody else. So this is a an enormous respect that we have. But in in Europe, we do not think that the the, the police model, you take it and you bring it there and then we have the revolution. We do not think about it in this way we think it's. It's more complex thing, but you can learn many things like the method. Like many things you can learn, you can come here, but these appeals were from the movement from the price movement. And they came towards us. They did not say come into the Upper East movement, even in Europa, and then we worked together. No, they opened in Europa with their appeals that are appeals of all revolutionary handlings in independently. If the you are poised or not appraised. And this was also they they open and they gave like a bridge to. To build up together, something each in respect of the differences from each other. You know what I mean?

Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, you're speaking about. There were. There were a lot of anger and that anger brought people together and many actions happened. In the end of the day, the war did not stop and. It's not over yet. There is, of course, give us fighting and there are still actions, but. To be fair, honest, Turkey had succeeded, and in this in this occupation. So the question would be what we can learn out of that, what to do differently and also how. You know, like these campaigns, many of them might stop because now there is not the continuation and stuff how to get out of this kind of campaigning and doing just things for like 1-1 kind of action and then. People, do they still meet or do they not meet anymore? How to get beyond how to create action revolutionary movement based on connections between people and based on some continuing organizing and.

Speaker 13: Yeah, there are different points now that you mentioned and I try to to answer to them, I think they of course offering at the at the end the the the from the military point of view, the our forces had to. To go away on or and to develop now the guerrilla strategy and they are entering now in the two phases of of it. and this has changed but. In I think if you look at the in in the historical way at the points the the the people from offering the the solidarity you have also not, it's not you win or you or you lose because this is it's not the the war. And the struggle is not white or black, black or white, but it it is. You have to look at what have has been gained. What is a is a. Good. And where we have to approve and go making better, we have to make self criticism and the the, the the strength that the OR the something that was very great historical great and in Europe we do not did not realise it at in in its equality is that. People did not go away. People came to Afrin. That means that the the people wanted to defend. Afrin people wanted to defend the revolution. The people came to to defend. And what this is kind of a peoples movement resistant. But of course, with all the NATO and the the air strikes, there is a very difficult situation. But this is something normally the people. Go away there. The people came. That is one point we did not work and enough on it in Europe to show the strength and because that means that the revolution proposed. Is the people takes it, he they they they like it and it's something of of their own. So you go only to war when you defend something that is yours and not because an army commander said you have to go as civilian you have not to go but they did they did. They get they gone and this is something in Europe that we we did not have the the capacity to show this to the people, that this is the. Change of it and the other side the what we have to realize it does does I think that the the revolutionary process or historical process is not like one straight it it it's English in my English not enough to explain what I want to say. The the process is.

Speaker 5: Like what she.

Speaker 4: Showing there hunting in like a linear line.

Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. A linear. It's not a linear process, but it is in it. It The history is made out by different top. House face no. And we we did not realise and the the Kurdish movement did not realise that one after Raqqa and mimbach Raqqa was ending a certain type of of of war because the the war. Against against the OR the liberation against Daesh is something else then the war against NATO, the war against imperialistic States and this quality changement. Not, we did not seen before. And we were surprised, I think in some way. So this we were not prepared. We were not preventing it in, in, in, in not only, I don't mean now the tunnel question or this, this militaristic point of view that I agree, but I mean in in. In in the the way you see it in your strategy, how you see face this new situation, this new quality of war, and this we missed and you see now in the for instance in the in the Turkish revolutionary move. Went and they they have a big pression on them because they they it is their frustration that is attacking and there is many points that we had to very quickly to see what have we missed in in our analysis and what have we go to. To to make better. Corresponding to to the new analysis, the the imperialistic war to have an imperialistic war in your against you and you have is something different than fight fascism or barbarism. The quality is a difference, and I think we were surprised by it, and this is we have to. Realize that this was. A defeat. Hmm. And but I'm I. I think I have made now my tour in, in, in Rojava. And if you speak with the with the people, with the different situations of the. Military places, units or commanders and so on, or strategic people. You realize that everybody has the same analysis and this is a good way to to in this unity, in the self criticism to go on. And they say I have been in Manbij. We say from Umbridge if we have to learn from offering, but we have not to learn only how to make tunnels, but we have to learn in our head in our way of of, of analysing and and. Perception of of war. What is change, what is changed and only in in in a whole package of of knowledge we can face. How to react this new situation. I mean in this is like a historical new situation now. And if we do not succeed, we will have.

Unknown Speaker: Hmm.

Speaker 13: Or the defeat if we succeed. In the in the analysis level of quality of analysis of of consequences of this analysis in all levels politic, diplomatic, military, civil works or revolutionary sanctions, making the revolutions stronger. So if we all this level, we can work on it. With this knowledge, new knowledge. So I think the chances to win are very, very big.

Speaker 4: Great. Amazing. This was this was a great to the to the end. I would love to talk to you for ages and I'm sure we will. But outside of the microphone. So. Having discussions together, it can be endless and with you, like if you bring so much input to our group and to different groups. And I think what you're doing is amazing. Unfortunately for the program, we will have to stop here and give the space also to the others because in this episode we don't focus on that one interview. But I appreciate you coming. Thank you very much for sharing all of this and. See you around.

Speaker 13: I've been very happy to be in the studio because it's something that is very important, very and I think taking initiatives and bringing initiatives to this revolution is that what makes revolution vivid living. Check captain.

Speaker 4: Salba surfactin.

Speaker 10: So we have here a song of a Cordish singer that is calling luarin. The name of the song is Jean. The is the man, is a woman in in English. And now we want to introduce a little bit women's campaign. While World Women's Campaign that was calling women's rights for a friend was an open call from the start, the woman organization in in. A friend and they asked for support of all the women, all the women's rise up for the resistance of offering and support and solidarity. Other system of offering. And then we have to focus also that the attacks on the womans in in Afrin were really clear not like the the system that the the women's. Construction and leading in in Rojava in in the northeast. Syria is a really target from all these fastest forces, not only Turkish army. Of course Turkish state and Turkish Government with Islamic but also all. These groups, like Islamist groups like these, al Qaeda groups and all of them. So, for example, we can say that the target they they distract the the the temple of of indara in in African region, Afrin Canton, that was a a temple ancient with 1000 of Geo Temple dedicated. To the goodness Easter, that is one of the primaries. Goodness in, in Middle East women's woman goodness. and for this many womans all around the world, they rise up and they showing them their solidarity with the with the woman's resistance in a friend. And we have demonstrations in Lebanon, in France, in Catalonia, in Argentina, in Mexico, in India in. In many places, and also concretely actions. For example, one group of women in Italian, they make an action against this Leonard company, this weapon, Italian company, and they make a an action of the. Like showing no the the responsibility of this company, also a demonstration or solidarity demonstration in SAT in in France also the the Long March that goes every year from Luxembourg to extras Burg. If I'm not wrong and they they were many womans in there. Putting their faces screaming slogans and trying to share in the air. Clarity not only with the freedom of fraudulent that, of course this March is for, but also with the resistance of the woman's in in, in, in Afrin also we can say that the the woman's like a Congress star in in offering receive many beautiful picture for example from 1 painter in in France. Make a a portrait of Barrin Cobane. This hit that they will. We will be speaking in later in our part of the Roku Shahid, also a collective of handcraft in in Chile. They make it a really beautiful showing. I don't know how to call it in English, but they're like a showing pictures of womans of the resistant in Afrin posters in for example Argentina from different collective. Also big really really big posters with the woman recent campaign in in different cities. Of Italia in Roma, for example. And all of this is bringing to US1 concretely thing. That is, if all the womans we we came together to struggle against patricky, we struggle against fascist anything can stop us because the meaning of the sisterhood of womans, because we are facing a. An oppression that we can touch in a in a concretely way, bring us a solidarity that is special, and this is something that the woman in Africa they really appreciate also so much so I I, I would like to invite you to go to the genealogy international. YouTube that they have a beautiful video with all of the recompilation of these imagines and demonstrations that they were around the world. And to to to watch it and to to to feel it. This solidarity among among women and yeah, and also follow the hashtag woman prize for a friend. So you can see it and we we have to say that this campaign is not stopped. We should to continue to build it up communal. Solidarity struggle among women's in in around the world to face all this violence that women face in everyday in every part of the world.

Speaker 11: Love.

Speaker 3: Have you heard about the people in their occupied homelands? They fought alongside allies in the war against Saddam, the liberators of Rojava, for those brave women and men some gave their lives of freedom, and they do it all again. So I sing today. Solid I would see. In Kurdistan.

Speaker 2: From almost everywhere.

Speaker 3: And they come from far and wide. If only everyone. The star the revolution rests in their loving hands. Those guerrillas for Islamic State and all that they stood for for an end to the caliphate ball to cross the door in the women's Protection Unit, was the first of its kind. The jihadist round when they saw ladies behind the side. So I sing today. All the YPJ in solidarity goes into the stars.

Speaker 2: Doesn't. From almost everywhere.

Speaker 3: They come from far white and the house. This for the other ones too. The revolution rests in the man of the night. Something strange is happening. Turkey is intervened. And pushed our freedom fighters right. Out of the free and the government is sanctioning. A pillage by. The state and murdering the very people they thought to protect. So I see you today. Solidarity those in Kurdistan.

Speaker 2: As much as there from almost everywhere.

Speaker 3: They come from far and wide to land. Please talk me everyone. The revolution. Have you heard about a people in their occupied homelands? They fought alongside allies. In the war against Saddam. The liberators of Roshar, for those brave women men. Some gave their lives of freedom, and they do it all again. So I sing today for the YPJ in solidarity with those in Kurdistan.

Speaker 2: There's Martins there from almost everywhere.

Speaker 3: They come from far and wide. If only everyone could understand the revolution rests in their loving heart.

Speaker 7: Yes.

Speaker 10: So we have the chance to connect with to clear Anarchies comrades from Sweden. Her names are Revan and Anna. Both of them, they are involved in the women's solidarity with offering, offering resistance and other struggles in Stockholm. And we want to ask them to share with us why and how this solidarity with the Kurdish movie and especially with the woman's Kurdish movement, have popped up. So friends, can you tell us?

Speaker 6: Friend.

Speaker 10: Why do you think this solidarity came out? Why do you think so many people also went to rojavan to fight and to show their solidarity in many ways.

Speaker 14: I think the the reason why a lot of people went to in the beginning was because of the the the fight in Kobani and the victory in Kobani and you know, the the inspiration of. I guess especially the women's movement and the feminist struggle that was going on in Rojava and that was kind of the beginning of knowing about the. The project that is going on. There. And I think that I wanted to. Help in some kind of practical way? Yeah to support. While this revolution in in you know any. Way that I thought that I could. And when I was the first time in Rojava, I went specifically to Kobani and. I was working there with physiotherapy. With people being injured in the war in. The war, yeah. And uh, so I was only there for a few weeks the first time, but during that month it was in June in 2015. I was in a village outside. With some comrades from YPJ. And we woke up early in the morning. It was maybe 5 or 6 in the morning. And there were people that run around everywhere and, you know, I didn't speak Kurdish. I didn't know what was going on. But I realized after a while. Trying to communicate with friends. That. Islamic State had infiltrated Kubani 6 different groups had taken different positions in the city.

Speaker 11: Yeah.

Speaker 14: And one of these places was was doctors Without Borders Hospital and they were shooting at civilians. They were shooting at anybody they could shoot at, and later I heard that they had. That they had disguised themselves, camouflaged themselves in YPG closed and they were knocking on doors of civilians, saying Haval Haval uh, which means comrade and friend.

Speaker 11: Yeah.

Speaker 14: And when people opened the. Door. They just, you know, they just shut everybody. Whoever they were, even children and several 100 people were were killed murdered during these days in Kobani. And there were several of our injured friends that also chose to go and join the fighting. And for me, I didn't even know how. To use a weapon. I never, ever, even you know, touched the gun. In my life, and I was sitting there and I was, you know, feeling more and more frustrated because there was nothing, in fact that I could do to help. I couldn't defend myself. I couldn't defend my friends. And if something would happen, I would. Be of no use at all. And I think that during this time. I also realized that. You know as important it is. With our ideology and the practical work that we do, it's the foundation of the society. But we also need self-defense. And if we, if we don't have self-defense. Then then we are nothing in them, like we can't defend our ideology. We can't put anything to practice. We can be crushed in an instant.

Speaker 11: Yeah. Overrun by fascists.

Speaker 14: Exactly. And I kind of realized also at that point because it it became very real, a lot of our friends died during these days. And I think it became real that. I mean, there are different ideologies and there are different groups with many different names, but it's still like a patriarchal mentality. And it's still like the consequences of what they do, whether it's Islamic State or if it's the Nazis or even if it's the Turkish state. The consequences are that people are imprisoned or they are tortured or they are killed. There is like an authoritarian regime, yeah. And which means that there is no freedom for people. So during this period of time, I made a decision. That. When I came back because I had to go back to Sweden. I made the decision that I wanted to join YPJ.

Speaker 11: Yeah.

Speaker 14: And of course I guess that. Why PJ came to be something much more than I realized at the time when I made this decision.

Speaker 13: Yeah.

Speaker 14: That at that point I just felt that I want to be one of those. Who defend the revolution if need be with weapons? But that I would never, ever wanted to feel as helpless. As I felt. When our friends was killed in every part of society, Rojava. Women have their own organizations.

Speaker 4: Hmm.

Speaker 14: For example, Congrats star or recharging Assad, there are houses for women, Mahajan. There is a village setting is being built right now in Rojava that is called Jinhua. In every part of society, in every decision making organ. Or even within the military structures, women have their own decision making groups like there are have serak like, for example, Co presidency in every organization. But women also have their own organizations. That makes their own decision. It's the same within the military. And while PJ makes their own decisions, there is no man that can make any decision. For YPJ, and I think it like, it's really important that. There is autonomous decision making and I think I realized that even more because looking at Sweden for example, or other countries in the West, I think within the feminist movement, we always had our spaces, which was for for women or trans people or queer. That we had in fact own spaces, but maybe it was only for a short period of time for a festival for the 8th of March or for something very specific and how we needed this spaces to feel kind of like we felt felt stronger together and we felt that we could collaborate and.

Speaker 11: Yeah. Empowered.

Unknown Speaker: And.

Speaker 14: Yeah, we felt. That we could empower each other and that we could could in fact like start more building a movement. But. I guess the difference is that it was temporary. But in Rojava, that is the foundation of the society and you can see how important it is to have these spaces. To build that strength in the collective sense so that we in fact can take more space in society. And. I think I've, you know, waited my entire life to be a part of something that could change everything. Kind of. Yeah. You know, I guess it's, you know, I felt that I wanted something that had a purpose, not only for changing like a a small group of people or even, you know, creating a safe space. Where we could endure in this society, you know, with hierarchies, with separation. And you know, with oppression and that I wanted something that would last, that would wouldn't only be for for you and me, but would be for the entire society. And. I think you know partly I felt that it wasn't possible to live in this society in the West. And that in I think that in so many ways, nobody really feels included in these societies, because, I mean, it is a society where a lot of people feel alone and a lot of people are struggling to survive. And a lot of people are oppressed in different ways. Whether it's like racist structures or whether it's sexist structures and or whether it's poverty, whatever the reason may be, I think a lot of people do not really feel that they are. You know, connected or that the societies, something that they are a part of creating or that that they have. A voice.

Speaker 11: Hey.

Speaker 14: That we can make decisions together. And. I think I kind of felt that, you know, here something has happened for real. This is happening now during our lifetime, we can learn from this. We can live together and, like, create something that will change our lives, that can actually lead to, you know, our notion of freedom.

Speaker 7: Hmm.

Speaker 14: A society which is. You know truly democratic, direct Democratic, which is a feminist society without hierarchies. And I think that of course, you know, coming from a feminist background that was very important for me to actually, you know, do it. Instead of just, you know looking. To something that was happening elsewhere and not taking part of it, because this is truly something that is a concern of of us all. What is happening in Rojava is something that is happening to us as well where wherever is happening in this world. I mean, we look on things that is happening around the world and we feel inspired in our own struggles. We learn from it. We continue the struggle here. You can see it in a lot of cases. And when something is happening that is oppressive, it's also reflecting in all all over the world. I mean, everything is connected to each other. So I think that. Maybe a lot of people saw that this was happening in Syria. Yeah, and that it was something that was very far, a war that was happening, you know, on the other side of Earth, pretty much, you know. But it's just, you know, the same patriarchal structure that we can. See all over the world. And if we want a change. We are also all kind of responsible. To try and find a solution to what is happening. And now? Ah. They found they they have in fact the solution to it that we. Also can learn from.

Speaker 11: And it's all connected. I mean, like fascism, ISIS patriarchy, and also a lot of racist ideology happening here in Europe. And we have a racist party in Parliament, for example. Very active Neo Nazi group. Very extremist super Nazi groups who want to. Part of the ideology is create even more separation between what they consider different races also oppress women, oppress everyone who's not straight, like LGBTQ people, and that different kind of fascism. Is collected all over the world and we need to do something about it. We can't just let it happen.

Speaker 14: When I went to. The education when I came to Raja the third time when I, you know, I finally joined why PJ? There was also a. Lot of like discoveries that made me realize that maybe everything was not as I thought it was from the beginning.

Speaker 11: Yeah.

Speaker 14: I mean.

Speaker 6: A lot of focus are.

Speaker 14: Put on the fight against Turkey, for example, the Turkish army, the Turkish state or the fight against IS.

Speaker 11: But.

Speaker 14: I also realized during this education that. I mean the first and most important fight that we have is also within ourselves is within our own minds. Every oppressive structure in society is something that is within us in our own mentality. And that we also have to find ways of dealing with that to analyze ourselves as well as society and history. and I think within the Kurdish movement, there are strategies to do that. You know, and a part of it is, of course, because you're living a collective life, you share everything together, you know everything that you do affects someone else instantly. And we have to consider each other. We have to try and listen and change ourselves in different ways so that we can live together.

Speaker 11: But.

Speaker 14: I mean, it's really. It really made me realize in which ways me myself like how I am connected to these oppressive structures and how I've been looking on other people or creating hierarchies or. And. Then I realized that of course I can learn how to use a. Gun. But it means nothing if I don't have like the. The political foundation, and if I don't have the knowledge and analyse of myself and others that, I mean, we have an ideological war. Against us on an everyday basis, you know, everyday we read something online. Everyday we read the newspaper every time we put on the television. Every time we go to the city on the metro, on the train, it's everywhere. In every relationship we have in our families. Everything in school? Yeah. You know, in every book we read, there is like we we learn the structures of the society. And in that, of course, we, we learn oppressive behavior. So if we cannot, like, analyze that and analyze ourselves and try to, you know, if we can't change our own mentality, yeah, concerning these issues, it doesn't matter if we change the technical issues.

Speaker 11: Yeah.

Speaker 14: If we change the society because our mindset will be the same.

Speaker 11: Yeah. And I guess here a lot of things are very technical, like the solutions are. Or for like a political problem or a situation is to have. A demo or. Sign up online saying that you're against something, but we don't talk as much about how to develop ourselves, how to work on our like. Yeah, like you said, the hierarchies that we. Are part of our norms that we recreate and that it's like activism is not a hobby or something you can really do a little bit of your life and then you have your private private life that's totally separated. It has to be all connected. And I think that's one of the. Strong points of the revolution in Georgia to connect all those things and like, it's not just using a gun. You have to have the ideology, the mentality, analyze yourself and also the importance of self critique. And that here in the West, I feel like critique is always seen as something negative or bad. It can never. Like in the moment and seen be seen as a generous thing to do to help your Havas giving critique is also saying, I believe, that you can change. I believe you can be better or you can develop yourself. It's not because I want to, like, shut you down. Or touch you. It's it's something that we do together. But I guess that's also because if you live your life together and you have. You have, like you share an idea of the ideology and that it's a project you do as a collective. It's very different from life here in the West. When you have your individual life.

Speaker 14: It's also important to. Understand that if we are serious about international solidarity, like if we are focusing on solidarity and not like a charity movement, and then we also need to focus on how we're going to change ourselves during this time. It's not just about the amount of demonstration. Do to support the revolution. Or how many talks we are, you know, organizing or how many books we sell. But to actually try and implement, try to create. What we feel inspired by from Rojava into our own lives, you know, of course you know, with the conditions that are here, the society, the history, the people, you know, we can't copy paste what is happening and what about but still.

Speaker 11: No, of course.

Speaker 14: We also need to understand that this is something that is important, that we put time and effort into doing, and I think this is a a lot of times we forget it because we we are so focused on actually. Doing something that you can see and that you can measure.

Speaker 5: Eh.

Speaker 11: Yeah. And I think here like the image from the revolution is usually women with guns and that is of course, an important and empowering image that it's also I think, important to remember the ideology. Behind it. And here when we talk about gender equality, it's very. Technical very statistical. How many women are, like, have different kind of jobs? And if we just on on the paper can read like ohh and it's an equal amount of men and women, then we're done. We don't talk about like patriarchy. As oppressive system that we all are part of. It's just the solution is seen as. Yeah, doing the statistics are seen as the solution in a way, but we forget about talking about all parts of our lives. All parts of our relationship, friendships, how we interact, interact with each other is all part of. How patriarchy.

Speaker 14: How it affects our lives?

Speaker 11: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 10: You. We are present this as a queer people and the fighting for the equality like a queer struggle, and we would like to ask to you, how do you think that can be combined with the cure this women's movement with the freedom? Through this movement in Middle East, but also in Europe, and which kind of contradiction became in. Not only with the Kurdish movement, but also in the Europe societies. What do you think about this?

Speaker 14: For us, being queer is the same as being anti fascist or feminist.

Speaker 6: It's.

Speaker 14: Being against all kinds of oppression, whether it's oppression from the state or from patriarchy, it doesn't matter what kind of oppressive structure there is, because it's a way, an approach like a a mindset, a way of analyzing society. A way of approaching society.

Speaker 11: A very good thing with the Revolution, Georgieva, is that it's multi ethnical, multi language for feminism quality, that it sees a lot of different structures. In our society and hierarchies, and also how they correspond to each other, queer can be and your identity like your lesbian or your tensioner, your bisexual, your identify is clear, but having a queer perspective is something much more than just. Your identity. Is about how you see gender and sexuality and. Hierarchy. For me, those are very much connected, like how men throughout history has had more power than women traditionally has allowed do with norms around masculinity and femininity. And having a career perspective for me is. Opening your mind to the nothing is natural or unnatural, that it's not because men have had more power, and masculinity has seen us been seen as a better or something than femininity. It doesn't mean that it's natural or should always be like that.

Speaker 14: So, so important to. Understand that the oppression against women and the oppression against queers, for example. It's like parallel to each.

Speaker 11: Other and intertwined.

Speaker 14: And intertwined. Yeah, definitely. So you know, it's more like a. A struggle against patriarchy, because feminism and a queer perspective for us is.

Unknown Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 14: It's not possible to separate from each other being someone who is breaking. Like going against the worms is something that would be punished very severely and we can see throughout the society all over the world. And if you are in any way. You know, outside the box of how you're supposed to be, you would be abused or you would be imprisoned and.

Unknown Speaker: Even killed.

Speaker 14: Even killed, yeah. You may not even be able to get. A. Job.

Speaker 11: Yeah, man, I want the revolution to be for everyone and a problem here with the feminists in general is that it's very technical and we have it said that Sweden is like the most gender equal band in the world or something. And that might be true in some ways. If you mean the statistics, but it's a very specific group of women in society that have that equality. So it's mainly white women and middle class women who are. Heterosexual. So if you're like a straight right middle class woman in Sweden, then you have like, all all sorts of rights. Rights. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 14: Some possibility.

Speaker 11: But if you're for example, you're a poor woman of color, or if you are a queer person, if you don't. People don't perceive you as a woman woman, even though you self identify. As a woman. Everything affects your position in society. Both the like actual writes on paper, but also how every everyone you meet, how they would perceive you.

Speaker 14: Or act against you. For example, we were organized in Group that were opposed to deportations. People who came to Sweden to seek asylum and were denied, imprisoned and then violently deported. So we were organized trying to prevent that or trying to support organizing on migrants in refugee prisons. One year during pride. Parade we wanted to protest against the police presence in the parade. We went to this pride parade and we had banners saying that they were deporting, it said.

Speaker 11: Thus, the Pride police help deport LGBTQ refugees.

Speaker 14: We decided before this protest that we were going to walk in silence. Because we knew that it was kind. Of. Provocative of just? You know, kind of questioning. Yeah, questioning their authority. But it took no more than maybe 30 seconds, maybe less before they surrounded us. They pulled us to the side. Pepper sprayed us and abused us. And also try to the charges for disturbing.

Speaker 11: The peace or something?

Speaker 14: Case.

Speaker 6: You could see.

Speaker 14: How they when something, someone or you are in some way trying to question the power structures. Yeah. And that you would be immediately shut down. With violence if necessary, and also like.

Speaker 11: Most of us who were protesting were also identified as queer or gay. So the parade parade parade was supposed to be for us, but because we had a political statement to make and requested, and another group in the parade, which were the gay police, we were, like, violently attacked by other police and beaten.

Speaker 14: I think one of the problems. That we have here. Is that we're focusing on on one issues at the. Time. You know, everything is very separated. We don't have an. Idea of how we would like. To see the entire society, what we want to build, we we don't have any hope for being able to create something entirely different. So we're just kind of trying to survive by creating different safe spaces. Yeah. So it's in a way, of course, it's very based on our identities. Yeah, because it doesn't really affect people or not so many people outside of the people that we already know and are organised with and feel comfortable with.

Speaker 12: Zahri. So. Villain. With the. Lichna sardi by Dashtan Week historic Chauhan wiki BAFA, Zagg Roshan. No. Hello Zaman. I'm Sharina Robin. Then.

Speaker 2: Thank you.

Speaker 12: Belgium to jasani. Hello. Part of.

Speaker 8: The family.

Speaker 12: What's up? The house. Becca will book you, Ashanti. Hey I did. I did. How's that change? No, your nature. No 10 and a half 3 1/2 Robert. Robert Robert. Hey. Yes.

Anna Campbell quote: The forces behind the revolution is that we build things up even stronger and even greater for in the memory. Of the people.

Speaker 10: So we are here in this last part of our program. Of course, we ask every program we have with our section Hida that to date is dedicated to Baring Kobani. For this time, we want to present a song from around the ground that is important, Armenian musician that were always close to the Kurdish people and he sang this song that is calling ideal better.

Speaker 12: Then.

Speaker 2: Babu dosta.

Speaker 12: Hakimi.

Speaker 2: I.

Speaker 3: So.

Speaker 2: I love you.

Unknown Speaker: True.

Speaker 10: So for this deroca shahida of our last program, I want to give you a trigger warning because we are going to speak about the case of. But in Kobane that is not a exceptional case, but is also a reality of war in many places of the world. So I'm going to tell her a story. Her really, really sad and cruelty story.

Speaker 8: The rich man was.

Speaker 10: Was a Kurdish fighter from the city of Kobani, and she joined Japan in the first beginning of of creation of this forces. She was fighting against Islamic State in the Kobani city in 2015. She wants to offering Canton as over 100 of her friends to fight against the fast system of Islamic State and the jihadist forces like they call it themselves, Free Syrian Army. And in the village of Kurma, in hillbilly **** St. that is half district in the north of Afrin Canton, the 1st the 3rd, 31 of January of 2018. She were surrendered by the enemies forces and because see another three comrades from and comrade they didn't wanted to flee and they wanted to fight until the last last moment. They fall sick heat. And it's for this that the enemy was able to to capture their bodies. So the enemy basically mutilate the body of this comrade. They heated the body. They insult the body. They just naked the body and they record all of this in videos that they publish in Internet. In these videos that they are horrible and they never recommend to anyone to see it, they they this Free Syrian Army. This basically jihadist soldiers or mercenaries or whatever you want to call it, they call it. Are female pig and also they say it ohh man but she she she's beautiful now. So I'm I'm asking myself what is moon beautiful of for these people? Is meaning beautiful, less of a woman is so weak situation when she is already dead and you mutilate the body and you. You you just making this kind of insult? And published it in Internet. This is the beautifulness that is Free Syrian Army that they are calling for. I don't know for our ethic of Islam or whatever. This is what they do. This is what they see. The beautifulness of women. So this kind of attacks of the Turkish army and their jihadist allies, as they have, we have to see that they have not only one side like the fastest and imperialist side. But it's also a clear attack of the patriarchy against the woman that want to liberate themself, and it is systematic. Action is a strategic that we have to say it is not only happening in Kurdistan, it's happening all around the world. It's it's. And also it's not around them act of violence. It's a prayer plan strategically. Is a threatening example to to the community that is causing the trauma that that this video have a clear message to womans, particularly to womans, but also for all the society that give a really strong psychological consequence for all the society. So. And incredibly, because Kurdish womans or womans in the north of Syria that they have the bravery to pick up a gun and fight for their own liberation, for their own self determination of the nation for their own liberation of the of the womans Turkish, Turkish army and the jihadists, they are giving these. Read it to them with more rage and with more straight that in in other in kind of other cases.

Speaker 13: Hmm.

Unknown Speaker: The day.

Speaker 10: And no happiness with this, and Turkish commentators praised in the advance, despite in this video like they were posting and saying that in the social media. If you are man's reference to the Kurdish or to yeah, the jebiga forces of the Kurdish society, if you are man's, you will not give weapons to womans and put them in on the front lines. So they are saying like that's a horrible justification for an atrocity act. That's despite of this. They are pointing one more time that the womans cannot take a decision and their responsibilities from on the men's telling that the womans are not are not an actor in this world that they. Or not can take any kind of decision that they cannot pick up a rifle and struggle against the occupation and they cannot struggle for their rights and the freedom that they want. They are just ridiculing the woman's telling. Clearly woman cannot fight because if they fight these things can happen.

Speaker 8: Hello.

Speaker 10: And women's had been a file like a battle file in all the wars, like it's habitual, like a normal practice in many wars and in many times and in many countries. And why? And I think it's because women are the basis of the society who stick the people together, who are still the Community together who stick the family together, who retransmit the culture and the language to the children's. So they are the real roots to a society. To add near to our. Nation. And. For this they make this kind of this kind of strategies on the women's bodies. No, that even in other kind of words they use the rapping mist against womans to change the composition of the ethnic in our region. So we have to really reflect and think about what kind of position. Woman should have an award to struggle against this direct attacks. And a Kurdish woman they already think about this and also this honor family honor that is in models played out in, in, in Middle East societies in. That they think that the honor of the family is sticking of the owner of the woman, like a woman, as a possession of the family, like an object of the family, like the object of the husband or the. 20. And against the situation of the family honor from some of bias, the women's Kurdish movements launch a campaign that is calling my my my owner is my my freedom and this is really important because they are trying to change the mentality this patriarchal and fear the mentality. About what is a main honor and about what is mean woman for the society. And we have to say that the braveries of Georgia. The baby of the jeopardy womans and civilian womans in Afrin, even if they saw this video because Turkish army or Free Syrian Army put this video down on the on the medias and they put this video on Internet with a clear message. Even if they thought, OK, this can happen again, because that's what they are saying with this video, they steal it because this is from the 31st of January. So mostly the beginning of the war. So they were saying, OK, this can also happen to you and even all of this hundreds of women continue to fight and hundreds of women. Continue to state in the village and in the cities until last. Really last last moment. Even even now that offering is under the this illegal occupation, this, this massacre, a lot of women, they are coming back and a lot of womans are living, even if they know what that is, a rape and is a kidnapping almost every day in Afrin Canton. So what kind of wickedness, what, what kind? But how how we can call like a woman like a wing in a in a in a war? We should really think about this. And for the end, we want to share with you also really hard. Sound of the family of Barranco Banen, the family of Barrin Cobane went to Afrin to Buriat. The the last restaurant like.

Speaker 3: Is that?

Speaker 10: They try, they they buried the body in in cabana, in in a friend. So they went to there and we have a record of the brother and the mother of varying Cubana that we want to share with you. We want to advise albertis that is. Quite hard sound, but I we really think that it's important to show the reality what it is in war is not only about Braves and win and also war brings a lot of a lot of pain and cruelty and we have to. Face it.

Speaker 2: This woman, the host.

Unknown Speaker: Ambition.

Speaker 4: I just wanted to send a message to us. They play with the body. Comrades, he destroyed our world power. Because in war they are not able to do something. They took the range with the body of our fighter. As they kill our children as they ride, this distorted bodies of our fighters.

Speaker 7: Oscar de beza.

Speaker 12: Kobichi Jawani Blache Chamisa Karen.

Speaker 10: She give us proud. The enemy will retreat. They must agree. The body of Baring Kobane. My body is not here. We didn't see the body of my daughter. We only saw her head enemy and Turkey make our lamp empty. Turkey dragging the bodies like a dogs. The enemies looting everything. The enemy.

Unknown Speaker: Honey, honey.

Speaker 10: Explode the heart body.

Speaker 8: And.

Unknown Speaker: Bye.

Speaker 12: Tari.

Speaker 10: So this does the reality and the concretely story of Shahid Barin Kobane, a great and bravery fighter of the Kurdish forces Japan, and we want to we wanted to share this with you.

Speaker 3: Donna.

Speaker 10: Because it's really important to remember how cruel he can be. The enemy against society and mostly against woman.

Speaker 3: Oh.

Speaker 10: We hope that this doesn't make you feel like a more conscious about the the situation.

Speaker 3: No.

Unknown Speaker: Hey.

Speaker 10: and now we want just to to close this this teroka Shahid.

Speaker 5: Denga Rojava, an internationalist radio project.

Speaker 6: An inside look on earthing resistance.

Speaker 4: So in a first episode in the Shahid, we actually had. Avesta Kabor singing. Very beautiful song and we thought to make a little surprise. To actually bring our young friends who always want to participate in the radio and they are from our who, they are friends from the village, and then they sing very nicely. And apparently they know the very same song. Alistair Kabur was singing in a in a video we used for the Rajshahi. So we. Decided to give them a little space to share. The same song sung by these beautiful beings who we share days and nights with.

Speaker 14: A mother.

Speaker 4: OK.

Speaker 11: Hey.

Speaker 2: Noble.

Unknown Speaker: That. The tooth.

Speaker 7: No danger.

Unknown Speaker: And then.

Speaker 2: Yuri Bori meri.

Unknown Speaker: Or. But I like.

Speaker 5: How do you?

Unknown Speaker: Levu Jelena.

Speaker 10: So we are really happy that you came until here until this last four extra program that we have in the thing about and it in is can be a hard job but we fulfill our project that with this 4 episodes. Focus on the resistance of Afrin and so we are really happy that we made this.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it has been a beautiful experience. Like it's having a lot of work, like a lot of trying to manage all the things that bring with this radio project. But I am really happy to also have been sharing this experience with you like that was than it has been a pleasure and for sure like this time that we spent together. I like develop. Ideas next time? And I'm sure that this is not just the end, but a new beginning.

Speaker 4: Set her down the machine. This was amazing. I don't have words in. I don't have words in English language to describe how much time by these 4 episodes and by our new friends we began.

Speaker 12: For sure we.

Speaker 4: Not always have been perfect and we had some limits set from the beginning as language wise. As that is going to be only mostly focused on Afrin or that there is not going to be really much of A space for the local people, really and. We are aware of these limits and this was this was the conditions we could have done it. It was kind of experiment for us now. We. Will brief little bit sit down, reflect on it and see what's happening. And.

Speaker 5: Maybe.

Speaker 4: One day, from what we started will be something else. But. Maybe not. You know, there is summer's coming. It's very hot. There is a lot of different things to do. We are all coming from different groups and have different plans. And a lot of revolutionary responsibilities. To keep up with. So that's why we chose this format, which we're closing now. But at this new beginning, so yeah, I don't think I have much to much more to say. I just want to say one more thing. And then it's we're going to still be active on our emails. We are still here and the and the response e-mail is not that hard. So we wish to to hear from you as. Finally, we start to hear from. You because. We know that. This is what we made will hopefully have a long shelf life and will be life longer than maybe ourselves. Hopefully so. Maybe they will serve some still some discussions later on and more snows will come and want to ask something. So yeah, but you know, will be active for at least some time. As long as you're. On the rise a bit not.

Speaker 1: And for this program we will put finally all along the song that it's always opening our beautiful program that it's a song and the music is put from Mehmed Benazzi. And the singers are Ibrahim fake and share of Hindi. And it was a song especially done for the Afrin resistance with a really beautiful video made for the communal film of Rojava that you can find. It on YouTube.

Speaker 4: Haviland sakti.

Speaker 10: Yeah. I also think so that we were circulating in, in this project and we also learned a lot of things and we share beautiful moments and we get to know each other better. And I'm really, really happy to be here with both of you. And I know as you say that this is just the beginning.

Anna Campbell quote: If we want to be victorious we have to admit that our fight today is a fight for all or nothing.

Speaker 10: You should fight with us.

Speaker 5: And then the first operative thing.

Unknown Speaker: Light the fires of resistance.